B+ rant

It's hard to learn more about the game when Awesome Werewolf Players such as yourself and vyk just say "shut up and trust me" instead of "here's why I am making this read". For what should be obvious reasons, "shut up and trust me" shouldn't work.

That was at moni obv

As someone who is still newer and has plenty left to learn and improve upon, I empathize with Ashington and DWetzel on this.

(Mostly just toward moni. Vyk is a good enough dude IMO.)

I think ww is a lot more fun when people try and work together and explain stuff

of course that doesn't stop me from being a grumpy old man a lot and trying to pull rank on people :P

To be clear, I don't have a problem with either of them personally, but it's bull**** to both say "get better" and to refuse to respond to perfectly rational questions from people trying to get better.

I guess my play here should have been to just say "shut up I am a lol obvious villager I will shoot who I want".

You're one of the friendlier faces on here toward us newer players, so you need not worry.

vyk's awful anyway, so he has no cause to tell anyone else to "get better"

here's his gameplan:

1) tunnel someone

2) they flip villa

3) learn nothing

4) tunnel them the next game

5) one day they'll actually rand wolf! then he's a genius!

Says the guy who tunneled villager Gad relentlessly and refused to listen to anyone who insisted he was a villager (and then didn't even offer up so much as a "my bad" when Gad finally flipped villager).


Again, I realize you're great in your own mind, but you need to realize you're wrong, and often, and especially this game. I am truly sorry if you are butthurt over the fact that I "called you out," but I was responding to you calling ME out.

Um, you had xxsooted in your sights before he ever made his first post in this game. More than a few people were in favor of lynching him if for no other reason that he was barely involved in this game. How many f3's have you been in with people who made 2-3 posts per day? If your answer is anything other than "zero," then we can go ahead and assume that I am right, you are wrong and xxsooted was doomed to be mislynched sooner or later in this game, and probably sooner.

And me needing to "take a break" doesn't mean I am burned out on the game, it means I am trying very hard not to violate the site's TOS by telling people like you exactly what I think about them. hth

I have played with vyk a few times. He seems to have a good sense of humor and fwiw I don't take anything he says in game as anything other than an expression of that sense of humor. Maybe I'm misreading him, but he seems like a pretty carefree person who's just having fun - in stark contrast to someone like moni who freaks the **** out whenever someone dares disagree with them or their reads.

Ashington

we can agree to disagree about vyk -- his behavior towards me this game was LEAGUES beyond monik's

but I really enjoy playing with you and I hope that you return to ww soon

I don't even mind being told to 'get better,' if there is some constructive criticism behind it. I got virtually none of that this game. Every time I tried to query Moni on why he was saying what he was saying, the universal response was his appeal to authority logical fallacy (in this case, the 'authority' was himself) rather than engaging on the subject.

It's the kind of **** that makes me just scroll through the posts from people like that and ignore pretty much everything they have to say...which is bad for the game. Engagement and conversation are key no matter what your role in this game (which is why I have no one on ignore despite how irritating they may be).

Absolutely. Hell, even CPHoya, who's gotten into it with probably half of POG at one point or another, will at least take the time to explain why he is calling you an idiot. This "I'm-smarter-than-you-let's-see-if-you-can-figure-out-why" approach simply does not work, unless the goal behind it is to generate ill will.

Anyway, I'm done with my rant. gg everyone

but yes, monik can often be one of my least favorite people to play with for exactly the reasons you describe, Ash

At the risk of being that guy who irritatingly posts "+1"...

+1

saying I don't explain myself or answer questions isn't true; you may hate what i have to say but you aren't being honest to say i don't answer them

if you really felt you had the right side of the argument you wouldn't bring up things with Gad, who himself has no real problem with how i played with him this game [i pressured him early but had essentially cleared him a few days in]


and Ashington you aren't welcoming of constructive criticism - because even when i politely told you i wasn't interested in your line of thinking on various subjects (CDL, BOO) you were so upset i didn't agree with your reasoning that you thought it made me a wolf - when i elaborated on why i didn't agree with your reasoning you still couldn't get over it


the game is over.. my reads this game were very strong and for some reason you would rather make up facts than admit i played well

its ok not to like me.. but you aren't being close to intellectually honest

This is basically true. You were really annoying early, though.

Dude's just flat out lying at this point, but the conversation is really beneath me so wtfever.

moni is right though ash, you were REALLY unwelcoming constructive criticism... whenever you have the time for it and if you feel it might be worth something, please check how I went to being REALLY REALLY nice to you trying to explain stuff (wrt vyk mostly) to being completely tilted by your behaviour ITT. I was never so angry at someone while playing werewolf before, and I rarely get angry at people...

Can you link me to this please? The constructive criticism part I mean.

I recall the "stop sucking/improve" part so no need to revisit that.

Moni's responses to me were barely intelligible, meandering and wolfy. If that's how he plays then my bad. If that's not how he plays then he needs to work on his communication skills.

Yeah, but you were sure I'd spewed myself wolf (seriously, PM me, I'm curious), even before I went rogue, so your opinion is obviously worthless.

to prove my point here are some posts i specifically made to ashington (i searched using his name as keyword)

oh wow... if you wanna go over my participation in this game you should serious check this out:

and yeah, I had you as a wolf lean. and then you shot hold'em who you had no meta with and was being seriously advised not to. we put the terms out there, you needed to show your loyalty to the village but you didn't. sigh. i'm not perfect, but i DID catch all the wolves, you know.

ash: this was my first post to you on the whole vyk thing:

I started to get tilted at you, but I'm totally explaining why I thought you were wrong. instead you called me a wolf and vyk a neutral. lol

I'm pretty sure I already agreed that shooting Holdem was pretty AIDSy. However, in my defense, notice how as soon as he was gone, for the most part we got away from "let's all yell and insult each other" to "try and figure out who the wolves are"? That's not a coincidence. The Mike Singletary rant applies here:



Catching all the wolves is great, but again, let's not pretend you were anywhere near 100% right with your reads. And it is because neither you nor anyone else are ever going to be close to 100% with your reads that the below is actually important.

You are not nearly as bad about this as some others, but: the "I am right, just do what I say" method absolutely BLOWS for a multitude of reasons:

1. You are NOT always right. You are quite often wrong, even if that "often" is a hell of a lot less often than "bad" players.

2. Even if you ARE right in this specific instance, just saying "I'm right, shut up and listen" is terrible because it does nothing to assist your fellow villagers in figuring out if you are actually right this time, or if you're just leading them astray.

3. It also makes it impossible for those people to actually get better as WW players. If that's your (and this is a generic "your") goal, to withhold information so that you can continue to hold the "I'm better than you" card for future games, **** you. You're basically tanking win probability in the current game and doing a disservice to your teammates if you do that.

Note that "seriously advised" is different than "being told what to do". Those are two different things. I was being told what to do, by a self-appointed village captain who could potentially have not been a villager at all (as you yourself concede). And even if he was modpeeked as a villager, that STILL doesn't mean he's always right.

Look, I got a ton of stuff wrong this game. Maybe that means I suck as a villager. Fine, I can handle that. But I'm never ever going to improve if the ONLY reasoning I get (and I contend it was) is "shut up and do this".