#1 Game of Mafia Champions (WW Invitational) - Game Thread
Foolishness: Why did you keep your vote on MNOWAX (you were the only vote). He pretty much came out and claimed either mason or lover - and he dropped major hints in his first post which Nana7 brought up (bread crumbed Astonios name in it). Even if you had doubts about his role claim, how can you justify voting for him as a first day lynch?
I guess the same question for Inifidel_PA who voted on Astonio
I guess the same question for Inifidel_PA who voted on Astonio
Fank can you vote someone before going to bed? I know you said you wanted to fry bigger fish than foolish, and that's fine, but I'd like an inkling about who those fish are :P
b) even vanilla roles have their purpose, ie take hits as the wolves search out the power roles. a vigi with no more kills left can still take one for the team by not outing.
c) i think we have a pretty narrow list of suspects already. and the time to out a role is under pressure, not before. That's the way I've always played.
Also someone should quote all of soah's reads in one post I think. He really is very good at this game, and having all of his thoughts in the one place as a bit of a guideline can only be a good thing.
I'd do it myself but I don't wanna quote a bunch of posts where he calls me wolfy :P Although I'll do it when I wake up if it hasn't been done yet
I'd do it myself but I don't wanna quote a bunch of posts where he calls me wolfy :P Although I'll do it when I wake up if it hasn't been done yet
One day I'm totally going to design a game with an odd night village vig and an even night wolf angel :P
Soah mad 66 posts.
here is a link to his posts
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/se...rchid=34260712
here is a link to his posts
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/se...rchid=34260712
Scum leans:
DrippingGoofball- those oneliners, that huge push on giga, COULD be townie, but I want more substance from him... If anything just playing bad, and more to keep town strong. (we allready have fitz and co to give us "problems")
nana- (somewhat mutually exclusive with foolish) As discussed by mango, the possibility of moving a lynch elsewhere... (I think I somewhat touched on this...)
Traz- Looking somewhat better, I cant wait to see what you have to say though. more scared than scummeh at this point
Foolish- Reasons stated in #1057
AP-
Heart leans
Chija- Stated in #1059
DrippingGoofball- those oneliners, that huge push on giga, COULD be townie, but I want more substance from him... If anything just playing bad, and more to keep town strong. (we allready have fitz and co to give us "problems")
nana- (somewhat mutually exclusive with foolish) As discussed by mango, the possibility of moving a lynch elsewhere... (I think I somewhat touched on this...)
Traz- Looking somewhat better, I cant wait to see what you have to say though. more scared than scummeh at this point
Foolish- Reasons stated in #1057
AP-
Heart leans
Chija- Stated in #1059
hang on... that AP lean isnt complete (really tired...)
Again, this is based on reading Foolish...
This one Is mutually exclusive, I feel that one is scum, while the other is town, cant both be scum, possibility to both be town, but I cant see it at this point
Good night all...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Again, this is based on reading Foolish...
This one Is mutually exclusive, I feel that one is scum, while the other is town, cant both be scum, possibility to both be town, but I cant see it at this point
Good night all...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
a) what makes you assume the vigi is one shot? it could be any night, it could be not 2 nights in a row, it could be x shots.
b) even vanilla roles have their purpose, ie take hits as the wolves search out the power roles. a vigi with no more kills left can still take one for the team by not outing.
c) i think we have a pretty narrow list of suspects already. and the time to out a role is under pressure, not before. That's the way I've always played.
b) even vanilla roles have their purpose, ie take hits as the wolves search out the power roles. a vigi with no more kills left can still take one for the team by not outing.
c) i think we have a pretty narrow list of suspects already. and the time to out a role is under pressure, not before. That's the way I've always played.
Thanks fank
Nana, I know, but he should have some concrete reads in some of those posts, rather than having to quote all of them. I'll try and do it in the morning if nobody else wants to :P
Nana, I know, but he should have some concrete reads in some of those posts, rather than having to quote all of them. I'll try and do it in the morning if nobody else wants to :P
Foolishness: Why did you keep your vote on MNOWAX (you were the only vote). He pretty much came out and claimed either mason or lover - and he dropped major hints in his first post which Nana7 brought up (bread crumbed Astonios name in it). Even if you had doubts about his role claim, how can you justify voting for him as a first day lynch?
I guess the same question for Inifidel_PA who voted on Astonio
I guess the same question for Inifidel_PA who voted on Astonio
You seem like a really obvious villager Mango, as does fank. I'm going to declare this morning an official success, and head to bed :P
All right. That's... very interesting.
There's a ton of info out there, and I'm going to have to go look through a couple flashpoints to get my thoughts together.
There's a ton of info out there, and I'm going to have to go look through a couple flashpoints to get my thoughts together.
Traz,
When you get the chance, can you gimme a few quick thoughts on why you weren't rly feeling it?
When you get the chance, can you gimme a few quick thoughts on why you weren't rly feeling it?
Votes from post 1043 to post 1089
Night in 2 days 08:00:56
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Night in 2 days 08:00:56
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Votes | Lynch | Voters |
---|---|---|
3 | Foolishness | TheMango (8), Nana7 (6), captain binkles (13) |
1 | DrippingGoofball | fank009 (11) |
18 | not voting | weareking (0), Verbal32 (0), traz (0), TaylorFitz (0), Murska (1), MNOWAX (0), mastin2 (0), marvellosity (0), Magic no wait UDFK (0), Infidel_PA (0), Foolishness (0), DrippingGoofball (0), Devourer (0), chrja (0), Blood Fox (0), Athexx (0), Anstonio (0), AngryPidgeon (0) |
Hey fank what happened to your night action?
Foolishness
Foolishness
Also someone should quote all of soah's reads in one post I think. He really is very good at this game, and having all of his thoughts in the one place as a bit of a guideline can only be a good thing.
I'd do it myself but I don't wanna quote a bunch of posts where he calls me wolfy :P Although I'll do it when I wake up if it hasn't been done yet
I'd do it myself but I don't wanna quote a bunch of posts where he calls me wolfy :P Although I'll do it when I wake up if it hasn't been done yet
Both of the dead townies primarily suspected you over anyone else.
You've provided separate justifications for their deaths.
Your sideways encouragement of NK spec and joking castdown fo any implications it may have on you feels like bold scum.
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Im gonna have to be less active. Im letting games drop on my forum nd Im barely being productive. Was hoping night was longer than it was.
Ya, agree that Mango feels better today. His vig spec seemed genuinely pro-town.
DGB, since when are you interested in Fool?
Murska's one post feels off.
DGB, since when are you interested in Fool?
Murska's one post feels off.
Mastin, are you responsible for the pizza or cyan kill?
Only interested in hearing mastin's answer.
Also you've been shoving an awful lot of town and settling on compromise lurker wagons - which I know is something you specifically consider anti-town.
Only interested in hearing mastin's answer.
Also you've been shoving an awful lot of town and settling on compromise lurker wagons - which I know is something you specifically consider anti-town.
This vote was entirely unnecessary and seemed townish to me for that reason. Why would wolf hop on a mislynch unprompted when not needed?
this should come as no surprise.
Vote: foolishness
Anyone who kept on me after the fact should easily be scum.
also DAT VIG/SK nice shot.
Vote: foolishness
Anyone who kept on me after the fact should easily be scum.
also DAT VIG/SK nice shot.
Damn it, Binkles presence in this game feels way different now that 2 of his main accusers are gone and its giving me chills. Its like out of the woodwork hes here to lead the town and shove the old counterwagon to giga.
Binkles, why did you make that statement about Soah being viewed yesterday?
Binkles, why did you make that statement about Soah being viewed yesterday?
Some Cyan posts and posts about Cyan
I think Cyan is telling the truth here a high % of the time, wolves generally tend to be a little more cautious than this when clearing other wolves, particularly when that player has heat.
I think he's basically only talking about villagers in this post. Typically the spot where he might mention a wolf would be either or nana but I'm a villager and I feel pretty good about nana so *shrug*
The more important thing may be Verbal's response and the subsequent back/forth
I thinkkk this looks good for Verbal but I'm not convinced. I'm pretty wary when people who don't post much or apparently aren't showing much interest in the game stumble upon some good reads, particularly when they don't go anywhere. But on the other hand, I sorta like the 'Heh.' if nothing else :P
I quite like this AP/Cyan exchange for AP.
Cyan seems to be trying to placate AP, which is more likely to come when talking to a villager because a wolf wants to convince villagers to stop suspecting them, whereas he cares less about convincing wolves of that because they're both already working from perfect info.
So the fact that he reacts that way to AP, kinda reacts that way to me (I'm less aggro about it all though), and is a little more dismissive of Verbal...I'm hesitant to clear Verbal from it.
^interaction with me, also a random throw-in on marvellosity. I'm inclined to not read much into it, I have marvell as a villager anyways.
And this should basically cement the anstonio/mnowax claim as legit.
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not an awful lot of stuff, but then, he didn't make an awful lot of posts :P
I think Cyan is telling the truth here a high % of the time, wolves generally tend to be a little more cautious than this when clearing other wolves, particularly when that player has heat.
I think he's basically only talking about villagers in this post. Typically the spot where he might mention a wolf would be either or nana but I'm a villager and I feel pretty good about nana so *shrug*
The more important thing may be Verbal's response and the subsequent back/forth
I thinkkk this looks good for Verbal but I'm not convinced. I'm pretty wary when people who don't post much or apparently aren't showing much interest in the game stumble upon some good reads, particularly when they don't go anywhere. But on the other hand, I sorta like the 'Heh.' if nothing else :P
I quite like this AP/Cyan exchange for AP.
Cyan seems to be trying to placate AP, which is more likely to come when talking to a villager because a wolf wants to convince villagers to stop suspecting them, whereas he cares less about convincing wolves of that because they're both already working from perfect info.
So the fact that he reacts that way to AP, kinda reacts that way to me (I'm less aggro about it all though), and is a little more dismissive of Verbal...I'm hesitant to clear Verbal from it.
^interaction with me, also a random throw-in on marvellosity. I'm inclined to not read much into it, I have marvell as a villager anyways.
And this should basically cement the anstonio/mnowax claim as legit.
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not an awful lot of stuff, but then, he didn't make an awful lot of posts :P
As far as interest is concerned, I'm no less interested in this game than any other player. I don't post walls of text. I don't multiquote like a boss, either. If I'm alive after midgame, you'll find I live up to my handle quite well.
My posts are either teasing people, or short, sweet, and to-the-point. Don't assume too much, Binkles. ;-)
Ok.
Binkles is, surprisingly, looking slightly less scummy after today. Not enough to make me trust him, but I'll look elsewhere for now. This is both because I kind of like his posts on D2 and because pizzaguy was killed. Then again, pizzaguy was the obvious N0 seer target, so that's not very weighty. But still, both soah and pizzaguy, both tunnelling at binkles, killed the same night and revealed town? That really doesn't look like binkles is scum.
I expected Giga to be town, but obviously not a PR, let alone such a key one. The switch from MNO to Giga was just such a bad, hurried decision. Admittedly, I didn't push my suspicion on Verbal well enough, and was asleep when the flash on Fool was discussed, so it's my fault as well.
Let's see. What Would Scum Do with the MNO/Tony claim? Well, switch off quickly, for one thing. Staying on that wagon would be suspicious anti-town behaviour. Secondly, push a counterwagon quickly. Great situation to appear town (saving a PR here!) and yet push a townie lynch. If Giga had been scum, there'd have been even more to analyze, but in this case it is still worth looking into.
People who were actively scumhunting Giga before the MNO thing are less likely scum. People who jumped on after the PR claims are more likely.
I'll start from where it began to be obvious that MNO and Tony were town, and add whatever jumps out of me to this post in order. Oh, but first, this jumped out at me:
This quote by Mango is very, very scummy. First of all, I'm not sold on Nana being town simply by defending what turned out to be town. Saying what Mango says here is a bad move for town. Then there's the whole thing about saying that he personally does not think Giga is scum, but votes for Giga anyway to avoid lynching MNO. Huge ping on my radar here.
Posts #682 and #683 are suspicious, by chrja. Add to that the Binkles case against him, which actually looks relatively solid from what I can see, he's definitely a suspect. In the posts, chrja 'analyzes' the top 2 wagons with a large multiquote of their posts... ending up with:
Giga: "overall kind of meh - could be villa could be wolf. Should definitely post more. "
MNO: "Should contribute a lot more - but i haven't really found him that wolfy - his leaving after his first post is kind of wolfy but overall his joking and tone seems free flowing to me. "
Now, in hindsight we know both MNO and Giga are town. At this point, MNO is also pretty much out. So he's saying that "MNO is kind of towny" and "Giga is dunno" when MNO has a wagon on him but is likely a town PR and Giga is an unknown except scum would know he's town. It's the sort of waffling non-stance, especially with both of the posts /looking/ like there's analysis while /containing/ none, that I find it very scummy.
Marvellosity keeps pushing for more info from Tony and MNO, despite the obvious situation. I don't like it. But I'm not sure scum would actually do that either. It's anti-town, but I don't see it as scummy behaviour.
Binkles posting suspicion on Cyan in the middle of the MNO/Giga debate. Strange, considering Cyan was scum. But I can't really say which way I'd lean with this. If he were more aggressive about it, I'd peg him as scummy, but as it is, I'd say a slight town lean. Looking outside the tunnel. Certainly a 'good player' read there, whichever the case, but that's a given in this game.
Traz is making sense, though not with much gravitas. I guess it's just his style. Town-read there.
At this point I outright state the town PR thing. From here on, people who strongly keep at MNO/Tony get a slight town read but strong anti-town play mark from me, people who immediately jump off need to be evaluated more specifically on how exactly they do it and where they jump and people who try to keep some suspicion on MNO/Tony while still jumping off get a huge scum read.
I ask for specific questions. Apparently people took it to mean I was asking Binkles, instead of everyone, sadly. I mainly wanted to see what people would tell me to look at, instead of actually looking at what others find interesting instead of what I find interesting. Binkles told me to look at Foolishness...
At this point, Verbal came in with an 'unvote'. I decided to go look at his posts to see who he was previously voting at. Apparently, Nana, from very early on. He soon after votes Anstonio. Strange, but I wouldn't say scummy.
Hmm. Well. What would one say about this? Most scum players would not post this. But, well, this is a champions game, and I personally know scum players who would post something like this.
Scummy. Not /ridiculously/ scummy, but certainly scummy. I dislike the "Might hate myself for this." I dislike the last sentence, too, because it's casting suspicion on Tony/MNO without stating it outright. And I dislike the vote on Giga, so basically this entire post is scummy. The reason it isn't massively scummy is because it's so... mild.
Another scummy post from Nana. One could read this as "When Giga turns out to be town, we should suspect binkles."
Scum. He's online, he's reading, he doesn't contribute, he doesn't switch his early vote. A scum player, coming online late in the day to see the MNO/Giga thing, would not really want to post anything as any move might be suspicious, they kind of want the thing to keep going so town doesn't start to look at any real targets and they'll easily slip under the radar with an early vote off-wagon. But not posting anything is also suspicious. So have to post something inconsequential...
I feel this is somewhat scummy, now that Giga and MNOWAX are town. The emotion doesn't seem very real.
Afterwards, he posts this. Looking at his scum reads, seem rather scummy. Having one wolf on the list, as a matter of course, and once Giga and MNO turn town the list would be discredited, indirectly defending Cyan. Or Cyan dies and it indirectly defends weareking. If weareking is scum, then Foolish is more likely to be town, fank is more likely to be scum, one or two of AP, marv, Nana, chrja and Mastin is scum.
"Look at this post if I die". Sounds like something one would say when one knows he won't die, and wants people to look at the post right now. It's obvious that we'd look at his posts if he died, that does not require saying. And he's got no reason to suspect he'd be a NK target.
chrja tries to make people look at fank. Slight town read on chrja there. He didn't really go at it with any real aggression or commitment, though.
Sudden hug at soah tunneling binkles. If, and it's a big if, we believe the binkles discrediting theory of last night's kills, this would be scummy.
AP says this about an earlier Nana post, which mentions that 'it might give scum an extra kill but it'll net us a wolf' about voting Tony. Not worth much of anything, but, well, by coincidence the scum do have an extra kill, and Nana mentioned it before we knew it. Just keep in mind. Might be coincidence, of course, but it did feel a bit off. And I like AP for picking on it.
Towny, but why didn't he try to rally against Cyan/Fool himself?
Scummy. Casting vague suspicion around, and claiming traz made it a MNO/Giga thing which I find a pretty weak claim. "am starting to doubt Binkles" Why? Also, why would binkles and Verbal not be likely wolves together based on binkles voting at Verbal early when Verbal was at no danger of lynch?
The only part of the MNOWAX wagon that concerns me is that marvellosity is on it. If I wasn't content with my vote on MNOWAX, I'd be voting marvellosity. He has a ton of posts, but has very little original content. Where I play, this is generally indicative of someone being scum.
Cyan, confirmed scum, mentions this about marvellosity. Keep in mind. It doesn't push marv either way on my reads, though, given that he was at no danger of lynch at all here.
Scummy. "I don't understand this sudden shift on Giga" "I don't read him as scum". Easy to say if you know Giga is town, very difficult to say if you don't. Plus, right after saying this he backpedals and casts suspicion on Giga. Also, he doesn't try to push any alternate targets, despite listing some vague scumreads, and ends up voting Giga anyway later.
Hmm. I don't really like this much, but I can't say it's scummy. More of a null. Easy to go at Cyan if you're both scum when you don't /really/ push him and he has no chance of being lynched.
Light towny vibe. I'm looking hard at Nana's posts during this, because she's popped up so often.
Several AP posts here that combine to give me a townread on AP. Includes this:
The last sentence in particular resonates with my own feelings, though I would certainly rather attempt a flashwagon than not at this point. But that is probably just personal differences.
What? No read here, this just makes no sense at all. Typo or something?
I don't like this, but I might be biased. (He's talking about my vote on him.) I had explained why I found him suspicious a couple times in the past, but he's not addressing those, just asking me why I'm voting for him as if he hadn't read my reasons. On second thought, I'm probably biased here - it's more likely that he didn't register my admittedly sparse posts that mentioned him, than that he is scum trying to ignore them. Scum does not ignore suspicions against them, scum addresses them. Well, at least if they /mention/ them. If scum is ignoring suspicions on them, scum certainly doesn't post about it and still continue ignoring. Slightly towny.
I've looked at several fank posts by this time, but they're never really worth quoting, there's nothing I can really say about them. This is scummy - it's a sign that he's concentrating not on the situation but on outliers, posting rather a lot but not posting any content. Scum is more likely to ignore the MNO/Giga wagons and concentrate on other things, as scum knows both are town.
Towny. Taking a clear stance, posting a very clear and simple post about the heart of the matter with no attempts at confusion or muddling things at all. I'm very much liking Taylor for town.
Okay, here's that Mango vote at Giga that really screams scum.
Sort of scummy, but not enough to alter my earlier town read. Also, scum would realize this seems scummy. WIFOM.
Scum scum scummity scum scum what the heck is this?!
He outright says, very clearly emphasized, that "The Giga lynch is too easy", defending Giga. THEN he says "with so little time left in the day, anyone who is trying to deflect the vote away from Giga and MNO should be immediately scrutinized for trying to mislead the town (Murska)." What is this, schitzophrenia? If Giga is a bad lynch, and MNO is a mason, then WHY WOULD WE NOT PUSH ANOTHER WAGON? Only scum would want to keep it between MNO and Giga. It's so obviously scummy, it almost makes me want to say it's not scummy, but I won't, because it's scummy as hell.
Meh. Lightly town, I suppose. He was already voting at soah at this point, I checked, and I doubt scum would forget that.
I like this. Towny. Voting at someone he thinks is scummy, even though there's a Giga/MNO dualism going on, while being aware of it and mentioning that if necessary he'll prevent a MNO death. That's pretty much exactly what town should be doing in this situation, so I like it.
fank keeps tunneling at traz and being generally useless. But then again, to a slightly lesser extent soah keeps tunneling at binkles and being mostly useless, so I suppose that doesn't say much.
Verbal, again, 'unvote' and votes Giga, here:
He's actually quoting that scummy Mango post. "I don't find either wagon suspicious, so I'll vote Giga." Scummy by itself, but I really doubt scum would quote another scum and sheep them like this.
This is pretty much flat-out wrong reasoning in my opinion. First of all, when I voted at Verbal and went to sleep, there was a lot more than three hours left. And I'm used to playing games with time limits that roughly correspond to this game, 3 hours or 2 hours or whatever is plenty of time to flashwagon. What's outright wrong is lynching someone you don't think is scum. That is bad. I don't know if this is scummy, though - I'd call it a nulltell, as I feel he really thinks this way and would say this regardless of his alignment. It doesn't feel like he's trying to manipulate people with this post.
Don't like this. I'd expect actual reasoning and trying to push an useful wagon from mastin. But it's not a very strong scum read - him not posting anything and simply waiting out the rest of the day would be way more scummy.
Words of wisdom.
Defending Nana here, from Anstonio claiming she's 100% scum. I don't like this.
AP again pushing a Foolish counterwagon. I like it, more towny by the minute.
"If Giga is villa", why are you not contributing to the search for alternate targets, not even trying to go for Foolish even though his name is being mentioned as a counterwagon, why are you trying to already make yourself look less scummy when Giga the town gets lynched later on, do you know already at this point that Giga is town, scum?
A towny post. However, it's undermined a bit by the fact that it's so late. There's 7 votes for Giga and only 3 on Fool after this post, with 2 hours left. Still possible to flashwagon Fool, but it makes me think that if Nana is scum Fool is town. Very much so, given that Nana starts pushing for people to swap to Fool afterwards. This could make me think Foolish is town and Nana is scummy, or make me think Fool is scum and Nana is towny, either or...
Tony makes a mostly meta-read on Nana as scum. Very strong wording. Keeping this in mind.
Marvellosity votes Giga, defends Foolish. Hm. He's switching off MNO, rather late. If he didn't defend Foolish, I'd peg this as scummy, as it is, null.
Very towny.
What is there to say? I actually find this so over the top that it's scummy. Especially because he didn't seem very adamant on Giga before it became a Giga/MNO thing. In fact, he voted on Giga based on someone else's scumread, not even posting his own. It doesn't feel like he was invested in it, so this sort of thing now that it's clear the alternate option was bad... Don't like it.
Binkles switches to Foolishness very late. Slightly towny.
I'm not sure about this post. At this point Fool is the only possible counterwagon to Giga and MNO is safe. He's basically stating that he finds both wagons equal, and stays on Giga. I don't like it. Slightly scummy.
Infidel posts to remind people that Tony/MNO might still be scum. I kind of like it. I'd call that towny.
He's responding to marv saying Mango and Cyan don't have much pressure on them despite not doing much. I find this post odd. And scummy. Especially because soon after:
Feels like a very scummy thing to, while apparently distracted by a chat mafia game, realize that you said something that sounded a bit off and go back to post a hasty correction like this. Also it kind of undermines the whole read on Cyan.
Really. Read this, then realize that fank is voting at /traz/. He's talking, sure, but he's not switching his vote. Also, he says that Giga doesn't look like scum, Fool doesn't look like scum, Soah doesn't look like scum, MNO doesn't look like scum (why the vague read when MNO at this point is highly likely town mason?). And then he says that Giga is the best lynch of the 4, despite just saying he has no real opinion either way. Scummy. Also not picking a side here is scummy.
Marvellosity is claiming a meta reason not to vote for Foolish. I don't like it, it feels scummy. Why would you let something like that affect a new game? But some people do let things like that affect other games, so can't say for sure. Besides, marv really does play rather emotionally.
A couple minutes left, fank switches to Giga. I call this townish.
Okay, that's it for now.
I would summarize:
Nana or Foolish, but not both, might be scum. This means, they could conceivably both be town, but I'm leaning on one of them being scum. Both are not scum.
Mango is scummy.
marvellosity is slightly scummy.
Magic no wait UDFK is scummy.
weareking is slightly scummy.
AngryPidgeon is very towny.
Binkles is slightly towny.
Infidel is slightly towny.
Verbal, traz, fank relatively null but still interesting.
Binkles is, surprisingly, looking slightly less scummy after today. Not enough to make me trust him, but I'll look elsewhere for now. This is both because I kind of like his posts on D2 and because pizzaguy was killed. Then again, pizzaguy was the obvious N0 seer target, so that's not very weighty. But still, both soah and pizzaguy, both tunnelling at binkles, killed the same night and revealed town? That really doesn't look like binkles is scum.
I expected Giga to be town, but obviously not a PR, let alone such a key one. The switch from MNO to Giga was just such a bad, hurried decision. Admittedly, I didn't push my suspicion on Verbal well enough, and was asleep when the flash on Fool was discussed, so it's my fault as well.
Let's see. What Would Scum Do with the MNO/Tony claim? Well, switch off quickly, for one thing. Staying on that wagon would be suspicious anti-town behaviour. Secondly, push a counterwagon quickly. Great situation to appear town (saving a PR here!) and yet push a townie lynch. If Giga had been scum, there'd have been even more to analyze, but in this case it is still worth looking into.
People who were actively scumhunting Giga before the MNO thing are less likely scum. People who jumped on after the PR claims are more likely.
I'll start from where it began to be obvious that MNO and Tony were town, and add whatever jumps out of me to this post in order. Oh, but first, this jumped out at me:
vote Giga13
It's still possible both MNOWAX and Tony are mafia, but its looking rather unlikely right now. Regardless, they are a poor first day lynch. Switching to Giga13. With MNOWAX now town to me, and by proxy Nana7 who was strongly pushing people away from him, I now have no suspicious people in that vote pool, so even though I personally don't have a strong scum read on Giga13, I'm ok with throwing my vote in there.
It's still possible both MNOWAX and Tony are mafia, but its looking rather unlikely right now. Regardless, they are a poor first day lynch. Switching to Giga13. With MNOWAX now town to me, and by proxy Nana7 who was strongly pushing people away from him, I now have no suspicious people in that vote pool, so even though I personally don't have a strong scum read on Giga13, I'm ok with throwing my vote in there.
Posts #682 and #683 are suspicious, by chrja. Add to that the Binkles case against him, which actually looks relatively solid from what I can see, he's definitely a suspect. In the posts, chrja 'analyzes' the top 2 wagons with a large multiquote of their posts... ending up with:
Giga: "overall kind of meh - could be villa could be wolf. Should definitely post more. "
MNO: "Should contribute a lot more - but i haven't really found him that wolfy - his leaving after his first post is kind of wolfy but overall his joking and tone seems free flowing to me. "
Now, in hindsight we know both MNO and Giga are town. At this point, MNO is also pretty much out. So he's saying that "MNO is kind of towny" and "Giga is dunno" when MNO has a wagon on him but is likely a town PR and Giga is an unknown except scum would know he's town. It's the sort of waffling non-stance, especially with both of the posts /looking/ like there's analysis while /containing/ none, that I find it very scummy.
Marvellosity keeps pushing for more info from Tony and MNO, despite the obvious situation. I don't like it. But I'm not sure scum would actually do that either. It's anti-town, but I don't see it as scummy behaviour.
Binkles posting suspicion on Cyan in the middle of the MNO/Giga debate. Strange, considering Cyan was scum. But I can't really say which way I'd lean with this. If he were more aggressive about it, I'd peg him as scummy, but as it is, I'd say a slight town lean. Looking outside the tunnel. Certainly a 'good player' read there, whichever the case, but that's a given in this game.
Traz is making sense, though not with much gravitas. I guess it's just his style. Town-read there.
At this point I outright state the town PR thing. From here on, people who strongly keep at MNO/Tony get a slight town read but strong anti-town play mark from me, people who immediately jump off need to be evaluated more specifically on how exactly they do it and where they jump and people who try to keep some suspicion on MNO/Tony while still jumping off get a huge scum read.
I ask for specific questions. Apparently people took it to mean I was asking Binkles, instead of everyone, sadly. I mainly wanted to see what people would tell me to look at, instead of actually looking at what others find interesting instead of what I find interesting. Binkles told me to look at Foolishness...
At this point, Verbal came in with an 'unvote'. I decided to go look at his posts to see who he was previously voting at. Apparently, Nana, from very early on. He soon after votes Anstonio. Strange, but I wouldn't say scummy.
Hmm. Well. What would one say about this? Most scum players would not post this. But, well, this is a champions game, and I personally know scum players who would post something like this.
Another scummy post from Nana. One could read this as "When Giga turns out to be town, we should suspect binkles."
Like I'm sure at least one of the big posters has to be maf yet I townread Angry Pizza marvellosity Nana chrja and Mastin, and lean town on fank soah and Taylor.
I also have scum reads on Giga MNOWAX Cyan Foolish.
Everyone else I have as either null or I just haven't bothered to focus on your thought processes enough to get a read on.
Remember this post if I end up dead tonight. I should be back before EoD but if I'm not and I wind up dead N1 I don't want you guys to not look back at what has been said.
I also have scum reads on Giga MNOWAX Cyan Foolish.
Everyone else I have as either null or I just haven't bothered to focus on your thought processes enough to get a read on.
Remember this post if I end up dead tonight. I should be back before EoD but if I'm not and I wind up dead N1 I don't want you guys to not look back at what has been said.
"Look at this post if I die". Sounds like something one would say when one knows he won't die, and wants people to look at the post right now. It's obvious that we'd look at his posts if he died, that does not require saying. And he's got no reason to suspect he'd be a NK target.
chrja tries to make people look at fank. Slight town read on chrja there. He didn't really go at it with any real aggression or commitment, though.
Verbal was the first person Binkles voted for before switching to Giga with Traz. You voted for Binkles at one point. Do you still think he's likely wolf? I think they are not very likely together as wolves.
I am not really comfortable with Traz steering this to a MNO vs Giga thing either. And am starting to doubt Binkles.
I am not really comfortable with Traz steering this to a MNO vs Giga thing either. And am starting to doubt Binkles.
The only part of the MNOWAX wagon that concerns me is that marvellosity is on it. If I wasn't content with my vote on MNOWAX, I'd be voting marvellosity. He has a ton of posts, but has very little original content. Where I play, this is generally indicative of someone being scum.
I don't understand this sudden shift onto Giga13. I can somewhat empathize with the way he's posting. He's not useful at all, but I don't read him as scum. That being said, I don't understand his vote on soah, and the group of people who currently have their votes on him are suspicious as well, so maybe I'm wrong...
3 soah Giga13 (7), Athexx (3), TaylorFitz (35)
In the pool of people that voted for Giga, I'm suspicious of MNOWAX and Nana7
In the pool of people that voted for MNOWAX, I'm suspicious of Foolishness (I know him the best in this game, and he has avoided interacting with me at all, plus I'm always supicious of him) and Marvellosity (aggro on me, dont mind the pressure, but its all vague pressure and theres nothing I can really respond to)
3 soah Giga13 (7), Athexx (3), TaylorFitz (35)
In the pool of people that voted for Giga, I'm suspicious of MNOWAX and Nana7
In the pool of people that voted for MNOWAX, I'm suspicious of Foolishness (I know him the best in this game, and he has avoided interacting with me at all, plus I'm always supicious of him) and Marvellosity (aggro on me, dont mind the pressure, but its all vague pressure and theres nothing I can really respond to)
Several AP posts here that combine to give me a townread on AP. Includes this:
I've looked at several fank posts by this time, but they're never really worth quoting, there's nothing I can really say about them. This is scummy - it's a sign that he's concentrating not on the situation but on outliers, posting rather a lot but not posting any content. Scum is more likely to ignore the MNO/Giga wagons and concentrate on other things, as scum knows both are town.
There's no way scum would fake claim masons. That's a really bad gambit to run.
1. There could be actual masons
2. If one dies and flips scum the other is one would be dead as well.
Also for the time being they are basically confirmed town so I don't see how they would last long since there is no way that they are going to get lynched.
They really went about this in a horrible way.
1. There could be actual masons
2. If one dies and flips scum the other is one would be dead as well.
Also for the time being they are basically confirmed town so I don't see how they would last long since there is no way that they are going to get lynched.
They really went about this in a horrible way.
Okay, here's that Mango vote at Giga that really screams scum.
Sort of scummy, but not enough to alter my earlier town read. Also, scum would realize this seems scummy. WIFOM.
I'm going to repost part of what I said earlier about Giga:
He hasn't posted in the past 30 hours, but the case against him is incredibly sloppy. Nobody has posted more than 1 paragraph (I'm probably being nice here too) on why Giga should be lynched. This is absurd when we have oodles of evidence pointing against MNOWAX.
What has Giga done that is so damning? Yes, he said he was going to be slow at posting, and since he hasn't posted in a long while I can see why people want to punish him for going against his word. But what else is there? You can see from his posts that he's very concise in his thoughts and not afraid to speak his mind. Let me repost this again:
He says what's on his mind, and he says it with such certainty. Mafia don't make such strong commitments like that with their reads.
The Giga lynch is too easy
I want to remind people of the following post made last night, should be obvious why:
Furthermore, with so little time left in the day, anyone who is trying to deflect the vote away from Giga and MNO should be immediately scrutinized for trying to mislead the town (Murska).
He hasn't posted in the past 30 hours, but the case against him is incredibly sloppy. Nobody has posted more than 1 paragraph (I'm probably being nice here too) on why Giga should be lynched. This is absurd when we have oodles of evidence pointing against MNOWAX.
What has Giga done that is so damning? Yes, he said he was going to be slow at posting, and since he hasn't posted in a long while I can see why people want to punish him for going against his word. But what else is there? You can see from his posts that he's very concise in his thoughts and not afraid to speak his mind. Let me repost this again:
He says what's on his mind, and he says it with such certainty. Mafia don't make such strong commitments like that with their reads.
The Giga lynch is too easy
I want to remind people of the following post made last night, should be obvious why:
Furthermore, with so little time left in the day, anyone who is trying to deflect the vote away from Giga and MNO should be immediately scrutinized for trying to mislead the town (Murska).
He outright says, very clearly emphasized, that "The Giga lynch is too easy", defending Giga. THEN he says "with so little time left in the day, anyone who is trying to deflect the vote away from Giga and MNO should be immediately scrutinized for trying to mislead the town (Murska)." What is this, schitzophrenia? If Giga is a bad lynch, and MNO is a mason, then WHY WOULD WE NOT PUSH ANOTHER WAGON? Only scum would want to keep it between MNO and Giga. It's so obviously scummy, it almost makes me want to say it's not scummy, but I won't, because it's scummy as hell.
Meh. Lightly town, I suppose. He was already voting at soah at this point, I checked, and I doubt scum would forget that.
He pointed it out himself; he said to read his first two posts.
I can also see that preemptive Vanilla claim from a town PR perspective trying to fly low.
Given that there is no way to accidentally 'no lynch' due to no majority, Foolishness
I'll revote Giga if it ends up between him and someone I dont want to lynch.
I can also see that preemptive Vanilla claim from a town PR perspective trying to fly low.
Given that there is no way to accidentally 'no lynch' due to no majority, Foolishness
I'll revote Giga if it ends up between him and someone I dont want to lynch.
fank keeps tunneling at traz and being generally useless. But then again, to a slightly lesser extent soah keeps tunneling at binkles and being mostly useless, so I suppose that doesn't say much.
Verbal, again, 'unvote' and votes Giga, here:
Because that's how townies get lynched. If the vote gets deflected off of these two on to some random person it's too easy for the mafia to control the lynch. It never works out in the town's favor. It's about staying organized and focused.
Looking elsewhere is not the same as trying to start a wagon on someone else. Murska and now AP are throwing down votes without just cause, and that's not going to lead us anywhere. I think the Giga lynch is awful, but lynching him gives us much more information than bandwagoning a random player 3 hours before the day is over.
Looking elsewhere is not the same as trying to start a wagon on someone else. Murska and now AP are throwing down votes without just cause, and that's not going to lead us anywhere. I think the Giga lynch is awful, but lynching him gives us much more information than bandwagoning a random player 3 hours before the day is over.
AP again pushing a Foolish counterwagon. I like it, more towny by the minute.
Tony makes a mostly meta-read on Nana as scum. Very strong wording. Keeping this in mind.
Marvellosity votes Giga, defends Foolish. Hm. He's switching off MNO, rather late. If he didn't defend Foolish, I'd peg this as scummy, as it is, null.
Binkles switches to Foolishness very late. Slightly towny.
Out of the people with multiple votes, I'm not lynching soah or fank. And if MNOWAX has essentially claimed a mason/lover role with Anstonio then he's ok for now I suppose.
That leaves just Giga and Foolishness as the two people I'd be willing to lynch at this point, and I see no reason to believe Giga is more town.
That leaves just Giga and Foolishness as the two people I'd be willing to lynch at this point, and I see no reason to believe Giga is more town.
Infidel posts to remind people that Tony/MNO might still be scum. I kind of like it. I'd call that towny.
I think Cyan's an ok ish lynch and I've definitely thought about it, mango you're right on tho.
Funnily enough I'm actually in a chat mafia game with Giga right now, as I'm speaking. Yes I'm multitasking, but I'm also not mentioning this game at all for obvious reasons.
Funnily enough I'm actually in a chat mafia game with Giga right now, as I'm speaking. Yes I'm multitasking, but I'm also not mentioning this game at all for obvious reasons.
I've stated my case... Everyone has their own case, of all the front runners, I dont see anyone as a good lynch today.
It doesnt help when a) everyone has their own opinion about lynch targets b) there isnt any real substance post to talk about... (from my point of view anyway)
Of those leading the lynch at the moment...
Giga- looks more like an "easy lynch" than being actual scum...
Foolish- No real lean on him.
Soah- Putting some good posts out there, nothing I have disagreed with
MNOMAX- Again, feels like people jumping from one wagon to another...
Not really many options fmpov, and no one wants to create a wagon from scratch (though with this many people online it should be possible)
I personally want one of traz/nana.... But I feel that it wont happen.
Of the 4, giga is the "best" lynch, in terms of how strong town is... I'll see how it plays out though.
It doesnt help when a) everyone has their own opinion about lynch targets b) there isnt any real substance post to talk about... (from my point of view anyway)
Of those leading the lynch at the moment...
Giga- looks more like an "easy lynch" than being actual scum...
Foolish- No real lean on him.
Soah- Putting some good posts out there, nothing I have disagreed with
MNOMAX- Again, feels like people jumping from one wagon to another...
Not really many options fmpov, and no one wants to create a wagon from scratch (though with this many people online it should be possible)
I personally want one of traz/nana.... But I feel that it wont happen.
Of the 4, giga is the "best" lynch, in terms of how strong town is... I'll see how it plays out though.
Marvellosity is claiming a meta reason not to vote for Foolish. I don't like it, it feels scummy. Why would you let something like that affect a new game? But some people do let things like that affect other games, so can't say for sure. Besides, marv really does play rather emotionally.
A couple minutes left, fank switches to Giga. I call this townish.
Okay, that's it for now.
I would summarize:
Nana or Foolish, but not both, might be scum. This means, they could conceivably both be town, but I'm leaning on one of them being scum. Both are not scum.
Mango is scummy.
marvellosity is slightly scummy.
Magic no wait UDFK is scummy.
weareking is slightly scummy.
AngryPidgeon is very towny.
Binkles is slightly towny.
Infidel is slightly towny.
Verbal, traz, fank relatively null but still interesting.
So, I'll vote Mango now.
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