#1 Game of Mafia Champions (WW Invitational) - Game Thread
Another another friendly reminder:
Again, feel free to join the spectator chat on Skype. Add me: thingyman
Again, feel free to join the spectator chat on Skype. Add me: thingyman
I am guessing that was for the dead players and not alive ones?
HOLD IT.... Before we all jump on the foolishness wagon, a thought came to me that maybe, it's a trap... Especially since who died.... askthepizzaguy is prolly one of the "safest" night kill targets of all those living, regardless of moves made, and how vocal people are... makes you think wether certain people are wolves or are just on the wrong track..
Some Cyan posts and posts about Cyan
I think Cyan is telling the truth here a high % of the time, wolves generally tend to be a little more cautious than this when clearing other wolves, particularly when that player has heat.
I think he's basically only talking about villagers in this post. Typically the spot where he might mention a wolf would be either or nana but I'm a villager and I feel pretty good about nana so *shrug*
The more important thing may be Verbal's response and the subsequent back/forth
I thinkkk this looks good for Verbal but I'm not convinced. I'm pretty wary when people who don't post much or apparently aren't showing much interest in the game stumble upon some good reads, particularly when they don't go anywhere. But on the other hand, I sorta like the 'Heh.' if nothing else :P
I quite like this AP/Cyan exchange for AP.
Cyan seems to be trying to placate AP, which is more likely to come when talking to a villager because a wolf wants to convince villagers to stop suspecting them, whereas he cares less about convincing wolves of that because they're both already working from perfect info.
So the fact that he reacts that way to AP, kinda reacts that way to me (I'm less aggro about it all though), and is a little more dismissive of Verbal...I'm hesitant to clear Verbal from it.
^interaction with me, also a random throw-in on marvellosity. I'm inclined to not read much into it, I have marvell as a villager anyways.
And this should basically cement the anstonio/mnowax claim as legit.
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not an awful lot of stuff, but then, he didn't make an awful lot of posts :P
See that's why I did it.
It's something that scum think they could get me lynched over but realistically it's probably enough not to get lynched. I'm going to make it to Day 2. Now a vig can complicate that but for the most part it's a sounds strategy.
Don't worry though. Walking the line is totally my town tell. When I'm scum I totally want to look like the most obvious town player that's possible.
Of course me telling you what my town tell is pretty much negates that town tell.
But that goes back to walking the line.
It's something that scum think they could get me lynched over but realistically it's probably enough not to get lynched. I'm going to make it to Day 2. Now a vig can complicate that but for the most part it's a sounds strategy.
Don't worry though. Walking the line is totally my town tell. When I'm scum I totally want to look like the most obvious town player that's possible.
Of course me telling you what my town tell is pretty much negates that town tell.
But that goes back to walking the line.
@pizzaguy: I addressed the content that was relevant at the time, which was Taylor. In my experience, when people behave like that, they are generally town. I said nothing more because there was nothing more to say at that moment.
Now, however, more content has been provided. I still think that Taylor is town. I also think that pizzaguy is town. His thought pattern is consistent and thorough, albeit misguided.
I'm on the fence about Nana and captainbinkles.
I think that the best lead available right now is MNOWAX, based on this post:
Everything about this post feels scummy. Policy lynching on a website where no one knows each other(more or less), using a generalized reason like 'third on the first bandwagon'(in my experience, the person pointing this out is far more likely to be scum than the person that was guilty of the initial accusation). Trying to create an unnecessary sense of urgency by telling us that time is wasting. Etcetera. Even the smilie use in his post rubs me the wrong way. We have a scum right here.
Vote MNOWAX
Now, however, more content has been provided. I still think that Taylor is town. I also think that pizzaguy is town. His thought pattern is consistent and thorough, albeit misguided.
I'm on the fence about Nana and captainbinkles.
I think that the best lead available right now is MNOWAX, based on this post:
Everything about this post feels scummy. Policy lynching on a website where no one knows each other(more or less), using a generalized reason like 'third on the first bandwagon'(in my experience, the person pointing this out is far more likely to be scum than the person that was guilty of the initial accusation). Trying to create an unnecessary sense of urgency by telling us that time is wasting. Etcetera. Even the smilie use in his post rubs me the wrong way. We have a scum right here.
Vote MNOWAX
The more important thing may be Verbal's response and the subsequent back/forth
Good thing that you provided this answer for him, rather than MNOWAX having to answer for his own actions. I thought that this was a game for advanced mafia players.
Also, 'I was trying to trap' is like the worst excuse(and yet somehow incredibly common) for a scummy post ever. I'll be highly skeptical and even moreso unimpressed if that is what he comes back with.
Also, 'I was trying to trap' is like the worst excuse(and yet somehow incredibly common) for a scummy post ever. I'll be highly skeptical and even moreso unimpressed if that is what he comes back with.
I quite like this AP/Cyan exchange for AP.
For the roleclaim? Read town to me too.
I read Cyan's comeback post in all its glory. Shame on mastin for thinking this is a trustworthy individual:
"Trying to create an unnecessary since of urgency"?
MNOWAX was being sarcastic/funny when he said it ["So who is with me? Time is wasting!"] and Cyan's accusation about a 'sense of urgency' is an awful stretch. The fact he missed the irony/humor/cheek (I mean it wasnt GREAT humor but still) makes me think hes just parsing posts for things to construe as he goes along.
And he thinks pizza is misguided town but won't say what he is misguided about. The push on Cyan? IIRC, Pizza only ever listed Cyan as a weak read due to lack of posts. Unless he means Pizza's Binkles push, but he thinks Binkles is null, so that doesnt really make sense either.
Fully caught up now (for however long that lasts me)
I read Cyan's comeback post in all its glory. Shame on mastin for thinking this is a trustworthy individual:
"Trying to create an unnecessary since of urgency"?
MNOWAX was being sarcastic/funny when he said it ["So who is with me? Time is wasting!"] and Cyan's accusation about a 'sense of urgency' is an awful stretch. The fact he missed the irony/humor/cheek (I mean it wasnt GREAT humor but still) makes me think hes just parsing posts for things to construe as he goes along.
And he thinks pizza is misguided town but won't say what he is misguided about. The push on Cyan? IIRC, Pizza only ever listed Cyan as a weak read due to lack of posts. Unless he means Pizza's Binkles push, but he thinks Binkles is null, so that doesnt really make sense either.
Fully caught up now (for however long that lasts me)
I disagree that he was being sarcastic/funny. Especially given that he is technically correct that 'time is wasting'. Each day period only being 48 hours is incredibly short(to me at least, I'm played in day periods that lasted a month or more).
Saying that I'm 'on the fence' about someone is not the same as saying I have a 'null read' on that person. And Pizza felt strongly enough to vote me, in a scenario where day lasts 48 hours, and it should be easy for scum to push even a half-hearted wagon. And then he just as quickly moved that vote to Captain Binkles. So yes, in my mind, he is misguided.
Maybe this is just culture clash for me? The pace of things where I come from is drastically slower than it is here.
Saying that I'm 'on the fence' about someone is not the same as saying I have a 'null read' on that person. And Pizza felt strongly enough to vote me, in a scenario where day lasts 48 hours, and it should be easy for scum to push even a half-hearted wagon. And then he just as quickly moved that vote to Captain Binkles. So yes, in my mind, he is misguided.
Maybe this is just culture clash for me? The pace of things where I come from is drastically slower than it is here.
I keep going back and forth internally on Fank.
At this point, I'm inclined to say his lack of hard stances on anything (he claims its too early to have a concrete read on the guy hes voting) feels like he truly doesn't care how he comes off. I have a hard time understanding his posts and the lack of reads from him makes him come off bad, but I don't see anything particularly scummy about him I guess.
Window edit: So he was technically correct yet hes scummy for suggesting something that is correct? : ?
Why is his Binkles vote misguided then? You haven't said anything about Binkles being likely town.
At this point, I'm inclined to say his lack of hard stances on anything (he claims its too early to have a concrete read on the guy hes voting) feels like he truly doesn't care how he comes off. I have a hard time understanding his posts and the lack of reads from him makes him come off bad, but I don't see anything particularly scummy about him I guess.
Window edit: So he was technically correct yet hes scummy for suggesting something that is correct? : ?
Why is his Binkles vote misguided then? You haven't said anything about Binkles being likely town.
Yes.
He voted me quickly, admittedly with little conviction. He just as quickly moved his vote to Binkles, with much more conviction. I'm skeptical that you can really be that sure that someone is scum, when you have no history with that person, based on so few posts. But at the same time, pizzaguy's efforts seem completely and utterly sincere. So ultimately, I think that he is just misguided.
He voted me quickly, admittedly with little conviction. He just as quickly moved his vote to Binkles, with much more conviction. I'm skeptical that you can really be that sure that someone is scum, when you have no history with that person, based on so few posts. But at the same time, pizzaguy's efforts seem completely and utterly sincere. So ultimately, I think that he is just misguided.
But he never said you were likely scum? Im not going to dig through his walls, but I remember him saying he wanted more content from you and that it was too early to tell. Ugh, now I need to sift through his walls again.
I still don't see how that makes him 'misguided' when what you are describing from him is 'over confidence' re Biggles. How sure are you about Mnowax and have you played with him before?
I still don't see how that makes him 'misguided' when what you are describing from him is 'over confidence' re Biggles. How sure are you about Mnowax and have you played with him before?
So the fact that he reacts that way to AP, kinda reacts that way to me (I'm less aggro about it all though), and is a little more dismissive of Verbal...I'm hesitant to clear Verbal from it.
Yo Cyan my bro, can you explain this for me?
I mean I guess you can be technically correct whilst also creating unnecessary urgency. But pointing out in your second post that 'each day period...is incredibly short', well that seems at odds with a lot of your contention in the first quote?
I mean I guess you can be technically correct whilst also creating unnecessary urgency. But pointing out in your second post that 'each day period...is incredibly short', well that seems at odds with a lot of your contention in the first quote?
@Captain Binkles: It's like..we're all aware that each day is only 48 hours, which is a very short period of time. But pointing this out on the first day with your first vote just seems like really poor form. It seems like something a scum would try because they think that they can get away with it(or they can just shrug off later), rather than something that a town would throw out there in earnest.
And MNOWAX' follow up posts haven't improved him in my eyes. Voting him feels like a much better choice than voting Giga.
The only part of the MNOWAX wagon that concerns me is that marvellosity is on it. If I wasn't content with my vote on MNOWAX, I'd be voting marvellosity. He has a ton of posts, but has very little original content. Where I play, this is generally indicative of someone being scum.
And MNOWAX' follow up posts haven't improved him in my eyes. Voting him feels like a much better choice than voting Giga.
The only part of the MNOWAX wagon that concerns me is that marvellosity is on it. If I wasn't content with my vote on MNOWAX, I'd be voting marvellosity. He has a ton of posts, but has very little original content. Where I play, this is generally indicative of someone being scum.
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not an awful lot of stuff, but then, he didn't make an awful lot of posts :P
HOLD IT.... Before we all jump on the foolishness wagon, a thought came to me that maybe, it's a trap... Especially since who died.... askthepizzaguy is prolly one of the "safest" night kill targets of all those living, regardless of moves made, and how vocal people are... makes you think wether certain people are wolves or are just on the wrong track..
Ok after reading everything here are my reads:
Taylor got a lot of attention early on and I think the reason for this was from past experience from other games, also because not many people were posting at that time that definitely contributed as well
I don't fos Taylor because of that and because most of Taylor's lines can be seen as null rather than something that definitely can scream town or scum.
Askthepizzaguy is ridiculously town. My gut tells me this and so does logic. He seems very open and unafraid, not hiding anything and I like his overall demeanor very much.
I also like Binkies for giving many reads early in the game. I feel like Mafia wouldn't attempt this from fear of getting challenged. But who knows, after all, this is a game of Mafia champions. My townread on Binkies isn't a strong one.
Taylor got a lot of attention early on and I think the reason for this was from past experience from other games, also because not many people were posting at that time that definitely contributed as well
I don't fos Taylor because of that and because most of Taylor's lines can be seen as null rather than something that definitely can scream town or scum.
Askthepizzaguy is ridiculously town. My gut tells me this and so does logic. He seems very open and unafraid, not hiding anything and I like his overall demeanor very much.
I also like Binkies for giving many reads early in the game. I feel like Mafia wouldn't attempt this from fear of getting challenged. But who knows, after all, this is a game of Mafia champions. My townread on Binkies isn't a strong one.
Anyway, to answer your question. I don't really see 'trap' kills very often at all, it's generally easier to get a mislynch when you have live townies pushing incorrectly than dead ones who can't vote :P I think the more important thing to consider is whether you think foolishness is wolfy or not. The legitimacy of the nightkills is something the mafia control, our reads is something we control
So, based on his posts what are your thoughts on foolishness?
So I made this post about chrja near EOD yesterday. I know everyone and their mother hates reading previous games but I think it's worth a look-see here
If you click through my quote (click on the blue arrow thing next to my name) it will redirect you to my original post so you can see the imbedded quotes.
So, this could be confirmation bias here but I also though, in retrospect, that chrja's comments on the main wagons were pretty meh. The main wagons were mnowax (super super likely villager) and giga (dead villager), here's what he had to say about them:
once again, click the blue arrow below to read the posts he's quoting
I think both of these opinions are pretty meh. They aren't confident at all and I don't think there's really significant data by either player to warrant a 'they should post more but they could go either way' lean, it seems overly cautious and a bit like chrja is struggling to lie about their roles.
"overall kind of meh - could be villa could be wolf. Should definitely post more."
^ this, for example, I just struggle to see too many villagers saying something like that when reading the totality of giga's posts. You could say that he's been wolfy whilst acknowledging that he could still be a villager, or that he's been wolfy but should post more, or anything really. This whole thing just rubs me the wrong way though.
I really hope this isn't confirmation bias skewing things, I really hate it when that happens :P I mean I read those chrja games yesterday expecting to be able to call him a villager and then...couldn't. And I really am surprised by this total lack of strong opinions. Hopefully we see lots of good stuff from him today so I don't have to keep pushing my favourite funky chicken
If you click through my quote (click on the blue arrow thing next to my name) it will redirect you to my original post so you can see the imbedded quotes.
Chrja this game
A lot of his posts are about presenting reads, it's not really an evolution of thoughts, rather a "I think x about y, here's why". It comes off fairly confident. And that's fine, it's often a stylistic thing. Except we see that sort of approach far more from him as a wolf:
Chrja as a wolf
chrja as a villager
Meanwhile as a villager there's often a lower level of confidence and more joking around. The things he are confident about are also more to do with him, which makes sense because he knows his own role.
Granted, he was more in 'real time' for the posts above, but he's catching up later and imo there are noticeable differences to his catching up here
^ about himself
^^^ that's the only one similar to his wolf game/this game I found while looking quickly.
I didn't really want to get into this until tomorrow or whatever because I do think the actual content of his posts has been decent, like I said above I expected to be clearing him from quickly reading those games, so I wanted to do more research, but Soah somehow read these games and came to the opposite conclusion, so now everyone can take a quick look and decide for themselves.*shrug*
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anyway, back to this lynch
A lot of his posts are about presenting reads, it's not really an evolution of thoughts, rather a "I think x about y, here's why". It comes off fairly confident. And that's fine, it's often a stylistic thing. Except we see that sort of approach far more from him as a wolf:
Chrja as a wolf
chrja as a villager
Meanwhile as a villager there's often a lower level of confidence and more joking around. The things he are confident about are also more to do with him, which makes sense because he knows his own role.
Granted, he was more in 'real time' for the posts above, but he's catching up later and imo there are noticeable differences to his catching up here
^ about himself
^^^ that's the only one similar to his wolf game/this game I found while looking quickly.
I didn't really want to get into this until tomorrow or whatever because I do think the actual content of his posts has been decent, like I said above I expected to be clearing him from quickly reading those games, so I wanted to do more research, but Soah somehow read these games and came to the opposite conclusion, so now everyone can take a quick look and decide for themselves.*shrug*
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anyway, back to this lynch
Giga re read useless multiquote
Kind of wolfy reads don't really get why he feels the need to include Taylor if he doesn't have a read on him.
His read on Pizza is kind of easy as other had stated it.
The read on binkels seems to easy, binkels was kind of forced by other players to give reads, therefor he shouldn't be given much credit for doing so - and most of his reads where kind of meh imo
I can actually kind of see this vote, somebody voted one of his few villa leans for not doing anything, where as he had just given him a villa lean for providing reads.
overall kind of meh - could be villa could be wolf. Should definitely post more.
Kind of wolfy reads don't really get why he feels the need to include Taylor if he doesn't have a read on him.
His read on Pizza is kind of easy as other had stated it.
The read on binkels seems to easy, binkels was kind of forced by other players to give reads, therefor he shouldn't be given much credit for doing so - and most of his reads where kind of meh imo
I can actually kind of see this vote, somebody voted one of his few villa leans for not doing anything, where as he had just given him a villa lean for providing reads.
overall kind of meh - could be villa could be wolf. Should definitely post more.
re read of MNOWAX useless multiquote
I read this post as joking, and on that level i find it mildly villagery. whats wolfy about this post, is that he doesn't stay around but leaves right after.
The reasoning in this post is wrong, people who post a lot are more likely to be villagers i my experience. But i don't think its the kind of thing you lie about as a wolf, so he is probably telling the truth when he says that we should look into those people.
The "My post say a lot more than you think" is mildly villagery imo.
Overall
Should contribute a lot more - but i haven't really found him that wolfy - his leaving after his first post is kind of wolfy but overall his joking and tone seems free flowing to me.
I read this post as joking, and on that level i find it mildly villagery. whats wolfy about this post, is that he doesn't stay around but leaves right after.
The reasoning in this post is wrong, people who post a lot are more likely to be villagers i my experience. But i don't think its the kind of thing you lie about as a wolf, so he is probably telling the truth when he says that we should look into those people.
The "My post say a lot more than you think" is mildly villagery imo.
Overall
Should contribute a lot more - but i haven't really found him that wolfy - his leaving after his first post is kind of wolfy but overall his joking and tone seems free flowing to me.
"overall kind of meh - could be villa could be wolf. Should definitely post more."
^ this, for example, I just struggle to see too many villagers saying something like that when reading the totality of giga's posts. You could say that he's been wolfy whilst acknowledging that he could still be a villager, or that he's been wolfy but should post more, or anything really. This whole thing just rubs me the wrong way though.
I really hope this isn't confirmation bias skewing things, I really hate it when that happens :P I mean I read those chrja games yesterday expecting to be able to call him a villager and then...couldn't. And I really am surprised by this total lack of strong opinions. Hopefully we see lots of good stuff from him today so I don't have to keep pushing my favourite funky chicken
A list of things foolishness has done.
-Defended Giga hard, tries to push on those who are lurking,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tries to push on those who are lurking some more,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tells that the lynch is "too easy", and votes for lurkers and pushes the lynch...
Some notes with the dead.
Giga flipped town, and although that doesnt give any scum points, its the fact that he's only really been interested in Giga, the whole day.
Cyan, flipping maf, and with the lean on anstonio, and going after MNOWAX... especially after deductions that have been made...
Question one, of those in this above list, who would he more than likely bus...
also, Have a look at the reasoning... Maybe forgetting that this is a "champions" game, and that the obvious may not be the obvious.
The biggest thing is prolly his reaction to AP's random attack... came out of nowhere, and really was a "good" bad reaction.
Of course... on the flip side... I somewhat think its possible that he's town... Especially given that the original argument against him (I feel) has somewhat lost water, its all possible it could be the other side, But A foolish lynch will tell us a lot. Im not going to vote yet because I feel that there is "bigger fish in the sea". But I definetly support the lynch (at this stage)
-Defended Giga hard, tries to push on those who are lurking,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tries to push on those who are lurking some more,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tells that the lynch is "too easy", and votes for lurkers and pushes the lynch...
Some notes with the dead.
Giga flipped town, and although that doesnt give any scum points, its the fact that he's only really been interested in Giga, the whole day.
Cyan, flipping maf, and with the lean on anstonio, and going after MNOWAX... especially after deductions that have been made...
Where is the talk of the meta?
askthepizzaguy
anstonio
athexx
drippinggoofball
Murska
traz
These people voted without adequate reasoning. That's a fact. Most of the time these votes were sheep votes (such as on Fank009). By sheep votes I mean they came after a few players already made their cases on why they were voting. These people didn't provide reasoning for their votes, they used other peoples' reasoning. This is where the mafia are hiding; leeching onto the easy votes. They don't want to give their own opinion, they want to use others.
askthepizzaguy
anstonio
athexx
drippinggoofball
Murska
traz
These people voted without adequate reasoning. That's a fact. Most of the time these votes were sheep votes (such as on Fank009). By sheep votes I mean they came after a few players already made their cases on why they were voting. These people didn't provide reasoning for their votes, they used other peoples' reasoning. This is where the mafia are hiding; leeching onto the easy votes. They don't want to give their own opinion, they want to use others.
also, Have a look at the reasoning... Maybe forgetting that this is a "champions" game, and that the obvious may not be the obvious.
The biggest thing is prolly his reaction to AP's random attack... came out of nowhere, and really was a "good" bad reaction.
Of course... on the flip side... I somewhat think its possible that he's town... Especially given that the original argument against him (I feel) has somewhat lost water, its all possible it could be the other side, But A foolish lynch will tell us a lot. Im not going to vote yet because I feel that there is "bigger fish in the sea". But I definetly support the lynch (at this stage)
Votes from post 1043 to post 1057
Night in 2 days 10:27:22
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Night in 2 days 10:27:22
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Votes | Lynch | Voters |
---|---|---|
2 | Foolishness | Nana7 (2), captain binkles (4) |
20 | not voting | weareking (0), Verbal32 (0), traz (0), TheMango (0), TaylorFitz (0), Murska (0), MNOWAX (0), mastin2 (0), marvellosity (0), Magic no wait UDFK (0), Infidel_PA (0), Foolishness (0), fank009 (3), DrippingGoofball (0), Devourer (0), chrja (0), Blood Fox (0), Athexx (0), Anstonio (0), AngryPidgeon (0) |
I have a biased opinion on Chrja... And mainly that's based on his interactions on my opinion, and other things... in short I dont like his view of the world, and think he's missing out on a lot of "knowledge", It's no use using this as a lean though, as its mostly a heart lean than my mind lean, and I try my best to not play with my heart at times (can really mess with my reads)
I know what you mean :P
Another thing for me - his read on wax talked about wax's tone being a good thing, but he didn't seem to bring that up with you aside from pointing out that you seemed 'annoyed'. Also his case didn't really seem to develop at all in between your first few posts and your last post (at the time), there was no thoughts about anything you posted in the middle. Which seems, well, either a huge coincidence or lazy/wolfy.
Another thing for me - his read on wax talked about wax's tone being a good thing, but he didn't seem to bring that up with you aside from pointing out that you seemed 'annoyed'. Also his case didn't really seem to develop at all in between your first few posts and your last post (at the time), there was no thoughts about anything you posted in the middle. Which seems, well, either a huge coincidence or lazy/wolfy.
I know what you mean :P
Another thing for me - his read on wax talked about wax's tone being a good thing, but he didn't seem to bring that up with you aside from pointing out that you seemed 'annoyed'. Also his case didn't really seem to develop at all in between your first few posts and your last post (at the time), there was no thoughts about anything you posted in the middle. Which seems, well, either a huge coincidence or lazy/wolfy.
Another thing for me - his read on wax talked about wax's tone being a good thing, but he didn't seem to bring that up with you aside from pointing out that you seemed 'annoyed'. Also his case didn't really seem to develop at all in between your first few posts and your last post (at the time), there was no thoughts about anything you posted in the middle. Which seems, well, either a huge coincidence or lazy/wolfy.
I am (or should be) going to bed soon, maybe add a few more points tonight. (why is GMT+12 timezone so awkward :/)
soah (voted on Foolishness): confirmed by mod to be killed by mafia. Did someone ask the mod to confirm, or was it just a self confirm? Just in case, I've PMed the mod and see if they will tell us if Askthepizzaguy was mafia kill as well. I think almost everyone had a strong town read on him except Giga (Seer/Village who we lynched) and Athexx (???) - those two voted on him.
Cyan (voted on marvellosity): someone will have to go back and check who, but multiple people had scum reads on him - but no one ended up voting for him. Almost certainly a town vigi,poisoner kill,jack of all trades.
Askthepizzaguy (voted on captain binkles): No one voted for him, and there was very little pressure on him, and one of the more active players for the first half of the day. It makes more sense to me that this was a mafia kill as well. Does this mean that mafia has 2kp or they have a role like poisoner or vigi? (the 2+2 guys will have to confirm if this is common as a mafia role)
Some random thoughts:
1.)If vigi or poisoner - do we have them claim? My thought is that it might be worth it because this early as a confirmed town can only help us since mafia will still be role hunting and a vigi/poisoner that already used their power is just a vanilla town. Meaning until much later in game, he most likely wont be targeted for a night kill. Also claiming now is a lot more believable than down the road where a mafia could easily fake claim. The counter to that argument being that if this is a role light setup, then killing a confirmed town might be on top of the list - and mafia has more information on us in that regard since they know their teams role makeup.
2.) Anyone who kept their vote on MNOWAX is super suspicious (Foolishness)
3.) Anyone that kept their vote on Astonio is super suspicious (Infidel_PA)
4.) Athexx - super suspicious from the beginning. Voted on soah and then went afk the entire 1st day.
5.) Anyone that switched their vote from Giga to someone else (scum or not) especially closer to end of day1 is suspicious to me more than clearing them as town. Thinking from scum perspective, if a vote on a villager is going to pass, you don't bandwagon even more mafia votes onto it, instead you switch your vote off onto someone scummy or random so that when the popular vote (Giga) flips villager it buys you somewhat of a free pass. That would be my play as scum at least That means I'm still suspicious of people like Nana7 who voted on foolishness last minute when it was 'safe' to do so. That also makes foolishness the first person we should pressure.
6.) I'm starting to get suspicious of Marvellosity and AP. The reasoning being that Soah was putting pressure on me - but it was good pressure, quoting my posts and giving actual reasons, which I responded to. Marvellosity and AP are pressuring me with very general 'Mango is suspicious' and have yet to point out exactly what they find suspioious, which makes me think they were bandwagoning soah's (who was obviously town) pressure onto me. I'd wouldn't be surprised that if one of them flipped mafia that the other is one as well.
Cyan (voted on marvellosity): someone will have to go back and check who, but multiple people had scum reads on him - but no one ended up voting for him. Almost certainly a town vigi,poisoner kill,jack of all trades.
Askthepizzaguy (voted on captain binkles): No one voted for him, and there was very little pressure on him, and one of the more active players for the first half of the day. It makes more sense to me that this was a mafia kill as well. Does this mean that mafia has 2kp or they have a role like poisoner or vigi? (the 2+2 guys will have to confirm if this is common as a mafia role)
Some random thoughts:
1.)If vigi or poisoner - do we have them claim? My thought is that it might be worth it because this early as a confirmed town can only help us since mafia will still be role hunting and a vigi/poisoner that already used their power is just a vanilla town. Meaning until much later in game, he most likely wont be targeted for a night kill. Also claiming now is a lot more believable than down the road where a mafia could easily fake claim. The counter to that argument being that if this is a role light setup, then killing a confirmed town might be on top of the list - and mafia has more information on us in that regard since they know their teams role makeup.
2.) Anyone who kept their vote on MNOWAX is super suspicious (Foolishness)
3.) Anyone that kept their vote on Astonio is super suspicious (Infidel_PA)
4.) Athexx - super suspicious from the beginning. Voted on soah and then went afk the entire 1st day.
5.) Anyone that switched their vote from Giga to someone else (scum or not) especially closer to end of day1 is suspicious to me more than clearing them as town. Thinking from scum perspective, if a vote on a villager is going to pass, you don't bandwagon even more mafia votes onto it, instead you switch your vote off onto someone scummy or random so that when the popular vote (Giga) flips villager it buys you somewhat of a free pass. That would be my play as scum at least That means I'm still suspicious of people like Nana7 who voted on foolishness last minute when it was 'safe' to do so. That also makes foolishness the first person we should pressure.
6.) I'm starting to get suspicious of Marvellosity and AP. The reasoning being that Soah was putting pressure on me - but it was good pressure, quoting my posts and giving actual reasons, which I responded to. Marvellosity and AP are pressuring me with very general 'Mango is suspicious' and have yet to point out exactly what they find suspioious, which makes me think they were bandwagoning soah's (who was obviously town) pressure onto me. I'd wouldn't be surprised that if one of them flipped mafia that the other is one as well.
Question: Can you tell us which roles were behind the other two night kills?
Answer: No.
Answer: No.
(replying to this (again) cause something popped up)
Maybe he has the same philosophy as me, saying the start is one of the main things in terms of determining the scumness/townness of a person???
Maybe he has the same philosophy as me, saying the start is one of the main things in terms of determining the scumness/townness of a person???
A list of things foolishness has done.
-Defended Giga hard, tries to push on those who are lurking,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tries to push on those who are lurking some more,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tells that the lynch is "too easy", and votes for lurkers and pushes the lynch...
Some notes with the dead.
Giga flipped town, and although that doesnt give any scum points, its the fact that he's only really been interested in Giga, the whole day.
Cyan, flipping maf, and with the lean on anstonio, and going after MNOWAX... especially after deductions that have been made...
Question one, of those in this above list, who would he more than likely bus...
also, Have a look at the reasoning... Maybe forgetting that this is a "champions" game, and that the obvious may not be the obvious.
The biggest thing is prolly his reaction to AP's random attack... came out of nowhere, and really was a "good" bad reaction.
Of course... on the flip side... I somewhat think its possible that he's town... Especially given that the original argument against him (I feel) has somewhat lost water, its all possible it could be the other side, But A foolish lynch will tell us a lot. Im not going to vote yet because I feel that there is "bigger fish in the sea". But I definetly support the lynch (at this stage)
-Defended Giga hard, tries to push on those who are lurking,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tries to push on those who are lurking some more,
-Defended Giga hard some more, tells that the lynch is "too easy", and votes for lurkers and pushes the lynch...
Some notes with the dead.
Giga flipped town, and although that doesnt give any scum points, its the fact that he's only really been interested in Giga, the whole day.
Cyan, flipping maf, and with the lean on anstonio, and going after MNOWAX... especially after deductions that have been made...
Question one, of those in this above list, who would he more than likely bus...
also, Have a look at the reasoning... Maybe forgetting that this is a "champions" game, and that the obvious may not be the obvious.
The biggest thing is prolly his reaction to AP's random attack... came out of nowhere, and really was a "good" bad reaction.
Of course... on the flip side... I somewhat think its possible that he's town... Especially given that the original argument against him (I feel) has somewhat lost water, its all possible it could be the other side, But A foolish lynch will tell us a lot. Im not going to vote yet because I feel that there is "bigger fish in the sea". But I definetly support the lynch (at this stage)
Foolishness
lets start the pressure
lets start the pressure
Some random thoughts:
2.) Anyone who kept their vote on MNOWAX is super suspicious (Foolishness)
3.) Anyone that kept their vote on Astonio is super suspicious (Infidel_PA)
4.) Athexx - super suspicious from the beginning. Voted on soah and then went afk the entire 1st day.
5.) Anyone that switched their vote from Giga to someone else (scum or not) especially closer to end of day1
2.) Anyone who kept their vote on MNOWAX is super suspicious (Foolishness)
3.) Anyone that kept their vote on Astonio is super suspicious (Infidel_PA)
4.) Athexx - super suspicious from the beginning. Voted on soah and then went afk the entire 1st day.
5.) Anyone that switched their vote from Giga to someone else (scum or not) especially closer to end of day1
-4), agree with you there, BUT.. could also be another case of giga, (and we all know how well that ended :/)
-I Somewhat touched on this, (in Fankian :P) Voting for someone who "obviously isnt townie" can be an easy ploy, Definetly keeping an eye on nana, but I feel like its too early to just have a look at day 1, and make a judgement ...
Is everyone who voted for giga clear? maybe, maybe not. But we still need to keep a rational head about it.
Should vigi out?
Let's think about that.
Um, NO. You don't out power roles needlessly. duh.
Let's think about that.
Um, NO. You don't out power roles needlessly. duh.
-Before you attack points 2/3, an understanding of their reads may be called to order???
-4), agree with you there, BUT.. could also be another case of giga, (and we all know how well that ended :/)
-I Somewhat touched on this, (in Fankian :P) Voting for someone who "obviously isnt townie" can be an easy ploy, Definetly keeping an eye on nana, but I feel like its too early to just have a look at day 1, and make a judgement ...
Is everyone who voted for giga clear? maybe, maybe not. But we still need to keep a rational head about it.
-4), agree with you there, BUT.. could also be another case of giga, (and we all know how well that ended :/)
-I Somewhat touched on this, (in Fankian :P) Voting for someone who "obviously isnt townie" can be an easy ploy, Definetly keeping an eye on nana, but I feel like its too early to just have a look at day 1, and make a judgement ...
Is everyone who voted for giga clear? maybe, maybe not. But we still need to keep a rational head about it.
Unless im misunderstanding the role, doesnt vigi only have 1 shot? Since the vigi used his shot, then he's just a regular vanilla town - so he's NOT a power role anymore. The most help he can provide the town is to remove him from the pool of lynch suspects this round.
So normally as mafia, defending a villager that hard is a pretty easy meta play to do, as it buys you credibility when you know they will flip villager. Thing is, I'm pretty sure Foolishness was defending him before anyone knew that Giga would be lynched for sure (I think MNOWAX was in the lead then) - which buys him a tiny bit of trust from me, but he could just have been hedging from the beginning as well. I know him well, and he's capable of making that play.
Wouldn't it make more sense for a wolf to hard defend a villager they're not positive is going to get lynched, than the other way around? Particularly when the counter-wagon (wax) is a villager?
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Generally on 2p2 when they describe kills they describe team kills as a 'group' and vigilante kills as individual kills (knife to the throat, single bullet, etc.), and I expect any poison-based kills to be outlined as such. Which is why I think soah was team kill, pizza was wolf vigilante and cyan was village vigilante. There could be more kills around depending on if certain people were roleblocked or angeled or whatnot, but I think expecting ~3 kills/night is a pretty good baseline for a game this size.
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Fank, I'm not sure. From what I remember that isn't a huge part of his philosophy but I may be wrong.
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@Mango again
I don't think vig/poisoner should claim just yet, even if the town has an angel that can protect them, the wolves might have a roleblocker which will stop the vig/poisoner from getting their kills through.
As for AP, I quoted an interaction he had with Cyan earlier this page, I think it looks good for him but I'd love a second opinion.
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Generally on 2p2 when they describe kills they describe team kills as a 'group' and vigilante kills as individual kills (knife to the throat, single bullet, etc.), and I expect any poison-based kills to be outlined as such. Which is why I think soah was team kill, pizza was wolf vigilante and cyan was village vigilante. There could be more kills around depending on if certain people were roleblocked or angeled or whatnot, but I think expecting ~3 kills/night is a pretty good baseline for a game this size.
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Fank, I'm not sure. From what I remember that isn't a huge part of his philosophy but I may be wrong.
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@Mango again
I don't think vig/poisoner should claim just yet, even if the town has an angel that can protect them, the wolves might have a roleblocker which will stop the vig/poisoner from getting their kills through.
As for AP, I quoted an interaction he had with Cyan earlier this page, I think it looks good for him but I'd love a second opinion.
My read of the votes at the end of the day, wolves may well have added votes to Giga to protect Foolish from last minute changes. I think the case against Foolish is pretty strong and wished a few more votes had moved to Foolish.
I'd expect the vigilantes on both sides to have more than one shot to keep the killrate relatively large. Dunno whether it'd be infinite shots or not, but I'd guess >1.
If it is 1 shot I still think they shouldn't claim but it could be an option if necessary
If it is 1 shot I still think they shouldn't claim but it could be an option if necessary
Maybe, We dont know how many shots vig has though, and he may have more up his sleeve than you intend him to have, than in that case, it be better for him not to claim...
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