Problem is, the "look at how TOWN I am" is, itself, incredibly town.

Don't get me wrong. There are things in Nana's posts which could be scum--but critically, you're not pointing those things out. You're attacking all the wrong angles.

My god, he's scum. He really, really is. The town-AP would have been able to realize why Anstonio's posts about MNOWAX were incredibly-town. Instead, he's casting suspicion in that direction, which also shows cognitive dissonance in that AP's had NOWAX as not being scummy.

A bad vote is a threat, a bad post is not

Hmph. I don't really have a read on Foolish. I should read up on him when I'm not on mobile.

Cyan, on the fence.

Mastin, they crumbed masons in MNOWAX's first two posts.

Wh the **** did you unvote in favor of Giga then if you still think MNO is mafia?

Anstonio and MNO are CLAIMED MASONS/LOVERS

I have the feeling I might enjoy some debates with you this game.

This case against AP seems incredibly weak. Basically it boils down to him not having the same reads and thoughts as you? And when I was rereading earlier, I saw him doing things that you claim he hasn't been doing. And he's been quite villagery in quite a few posts too.

Votes from post 36 to post 881
Night in 03:00:57
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Votes	Lynch	Voters
8	Giga13	mastin2 (37), Verbal32 (26), TheMango (15), Nana7 (73), MNOWAX (9), DrippingGoofball (22), weareking (65), captain binkles (72)
3	soah	TaylorFitz (38), Giga13 (7), Athexx (3)
3	MNOWAX	marvellosity (63), Foolishness (12), traz (66)
2	fank009	chrja (31), Devourer (3)
2	marvellosity	Cyan (9), Anstonio (11)
2	Foolishness	soah (55), AngryPidgeon (85)
1	Verbal32	Murska (20)
1	Anstonio	Infidel_PA (3)
1	traz	fank009 (39)
1	captain binkles	Askthepizzaguy (40)
1	Athexx	Magic no wait UDFK (12)
1	not voting	Silkku (0)

Lol they haven't claimed anything

I think this post confirms that he's just clueless/not paying attention. Tony, you had maybe 1 vote on you. Nana7 has been pushing hard to get people off of voting on MNOWAX due to you guys clearing each other. So by proxy she was pushing people off of you as well. From my point of view she convinced me to remove my vote off MNOWAX, and is town.

The thing is, it took MNOWAX pointing it out for you to figure it out.

THE TOWN-YOU WOULD NEVER HAD MADE THE POST I QUOTED. In the post I quoted, you called Anstonio looking bad for the 'crumb. Whereas the town-you (like the town-me) would have been able to figure it out before then.

@Soah: Let me give you some numbers of games involving me/mastin.

There have been 3 games I've been in with mastin where he was scum. In all of those games, he pretty much sucked up to me and blindly trusted me:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24640 (I was also scum)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25151 ( I was town)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25818 (I was town)

In literally every other game we've played together, mastin has been town and has scumread me for at least a significant part of one day:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23922
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23438
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26483

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23662
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26889

Literally 5/5 times when he is town he has asserted that I'm scum and gone on and on about vague reasons for believing it.

3/3 times as scum he has basically not cared about my slot and actually defended me modestly to aggressively.

--

Now. I THINK mastin is at least fairly aware of that part of our history and I'm loosely concerned that hes choosing this game to throw his meta, but I really don't think he is since Im the only person that would pick up on that in this game ANYWAYS and its not like hes making friends with me doing what hes doing.

So, I'd put money down on mastin being town. A reasonable amount of money.

yes, that was my point (I guess I didn't actually say anything about him, just about you)

I have both of you as pretty solid villagers

On Foolishness:

1) opening post was wolfy, for a variety of reasons covered mostly in the following points

2) after two people instantly he jumped all over him but without explanation, he just ignored it. I think wolves are more likely than villagers to just ignore that sort of thing. Villagers generally would be baffled by that reaction to their posts and say something about it. Wolves are just more like "oh ****"

3) His posts make it seem like he's lurking a lot

4) Very narrow focus

5) I don't like his Giga defense because he's clearly cherry-picking little snippets from Giga's posts in order to refute the attacks, while ignoring the general tenor of what Giga is saying.

6) He talks about his suspects in terms of who we have a case for lynching, etc, rather than in terms of who is wolfy, who is a wolf. This is deceptive behavior. It allows him to make true statements rather than lies while still leading in the wrong direction.

7) His recent posts have been out of sync with what's happening in the thread. He's not paying enough attention to know what's going on. People paying less attention are more likely to be wolves because they don't need to figure stuff out.

1) A super arbitrary list of people. Didn't even include Soah's Binkles vote?

Coming up with some heuristic to narrow down a list of suspects in your opening post is pretty scummy for a few reasons. Firstly, his metric is extremely arbitrary and considering townies lay down random votes for whatever reason in early game, this is not even particularly likely to be a list laden with wolves. Also even if he thinks it is a reliable heuristic, he doesnt even stop to consider it probably is not given the huge cultures clashing?

2) "Slippery pizza delivery boy?"
Like, what assumptions is he making about Pizza that justify painting him scummy with language like "slippery". What about his posting is so sleazy that he earned this tag right off the bat.

3) Trying to nail DGB on an inconsistency in "Because all the people that are posting seem good. Even the ones on my scumlist aren't that scummy in absolute terms." and having lists at all. What exactly is wrong with DGB saying her reads are weak at this stage? Nothing. But hes trying to nail her with some sort of solid inconsistency case like its SO GOOD.

Mastin, do you remember Thor in mini 1393? This is Thor from mini 1393. ****ing arbitrary reasons to believe things and shoving hard cases as if they are facts.

Not to mention..

4) he even tries to take responsibility away from the DGB lynch in the same post hes saying she is scum for concretely objective identifiable reasons.
"DGB makes much more sense to lynch since we've clearly got arguments against him". WHAT ARGUMENTS? And why does that matter? Townies get mislynched all the ****ing time because there are arguments against them.

5)"But then lurkers are scummy as well"
Lets lynch lurkers guys, everyone feels good about lynching lurkers!!!!!!!!!

--

Just wow. Fool is either a fool or scum and I don't think hes a fool.

TL;DR In his very opening post he is:

1. Trying to look like he is doing something proactive by throwing up a pretty list of names and defining a commonality among them.
2. Trying to look opinionated by mentioning random crap about lurkers and applying loaded language to Pizza for no reason.
3. Settling in for a vote on DGB whilst pointing to other people's suspicion of her as a good reason to vote her (without actually saying what the suspicion is and why its good). That bit is critical cause it shows hes not actually interested in convincing people shes scum, but rather just interested in hedging his way on and loosely using other people's posts as a reason to do so.

Soah makes a good case. And this post in particular just does not sit right after Foolish spent the day defending Giga like crazy. Foolish should want the focus off Giga, not to remain there and maybe even lynch him.

Foolishness

Votes from post 36 to post 891
Night in 02:00:57
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Votes	Lynch	Voters
7	Giga13	mastin2 (38), Verbal32 (26), TheMango (16), MNOWAX (9), DrippingGoofball (22), weareking (65), captain binkles (72)
3	soah	TaylorFitz (38), Giga13 (7), Athexx (3)
3	MNOWAX	marvellosity (63), Foolishness (13), traz (66)
3	Foolishness	Nana7 (74), soah (57), AngryPidgeon (88)
2	fank009	chrja (31), Devourer (3)
2	marvellosity	Cyan (9), Anstonio (11)
1	Verbal32	Murska (20)
1	Anstonio	Infidel_PA (3)
1	traz	fank009 (39)
1	captain binkles	Askthepizzaguy (40)
1	Athexx	Magic no wait UDFK (12)
1	not voting	Silkku (0)

Mod note: The post restriction is now lifted for the remainder of the game.

Yo MNO voters, how about some Foolishness since you did not want to vote Giga anyway?

Giga voters, I think Foolishness is more likely wolf of the two, unless they both are.

Was my case not up to standards : (

I mean this wagon is kinda my baby, but you are ignoring me being on it and scumreading me.

I'm not sure I'll end up voting foolish but I have no problem with his wagon

Would be pretty surprised if one of giga and foolish wasn't a wolf. Kinda unlikely for them to both be villas. Really unlikely for them to both be wolves.

Sorry, I read Soah's post and then went to read Foolish posts and then made my post. You can take the credit. I'm just gonna buddy up to ya all scum like now.