Btw I guess I should say that more games will only occur if other people can take care of modding them (while I'll still do the organizing and such). So... Any poggers who'd be willing to mod the next one, please lemme know :P

Doesn't seem that way is all. I'd be happy to play on this forum if I'm welcome here and maybe even host sometimes but I hope the general viewpoint at least somewhat coincides with mine.

Also Giga's lynch just bothered me, not only did he not defend himself at all (which trust me is very unlike him), but he also didn't even roleclaim despite having the most powerful town role in the game and a night zero report. I was bothered by this to the point that I almost asked the mod via Skype for a replacement/modkill, but decided that it wouldn't be fun ruining the game for everyone if I did that, and people could speculate I replaced myself due to anger at what had happened D1 and could pin "me" as town as a result. So I decided to play out the game regardless, I'm glad I did die on a high note tho.

I'd like to do this with you.

What isPOG?

Puzzles Other Games. Basically it's the subforum of this site that you're in right now.

I agree 100% with your posts wrt angleshooting, referncing mod communication in the gamethread is strictly prohibited on POG.

And ofc you're more than welcome to play/mod here.

I only saw this rule after having posted my initial post to the thread with my rules questions on day 1. But even after seeing it, I didn't think the rule implied that it was forbidden to post rules questions to the thread, so I didn't see any reason not to also post to the thread in the future. I would be willing to comply with a rule that forbids posting rules questions to the thread, but that's simply not how I'm used to operating. weareking, I'm sorry this rubs you the wrong way. You'd certainly be welcomed to play on BGG but I suspect you would strongly disagree with our culture then.

A couple years ago, a first time player whose only posts thus far implied he was not a native English speaker made a post on day two as follows:

And went on to "get help" from the moderator, giving every indication that he misunderstood what it meant to be a "seer" in the game. He won a lot of sympathy from the village but was eventually killed by the wolves, only to be revealed as a vanilla villager. He had successfully provided cover for the real seer by getting everyone to think he was a clueless newbie who didn't get how Werewolf worked.

On boardgamegeek, that post won him the Post of the Year award for that year, and was pretty much universally acclaimed as being excellent villager play.

I suspect you would hate it

Haha, I mean given that that's completely fine on your site, I agree that that's brilliant - well played :P

Really interesting to see the culture clashes and meta differences in the thread. The PA forums are pretty light on the game's rules (we still have some), and I've always felt like somewhat of a "pure" (or as we call it "vanilla") mafia hardball in the face of unusual mechanics we've thrown around. But compared to some of you guys, damn. I'll probably sign up to some of your forums to play things differently sometime.

Kind of sad that Infidel got lynched so early, the pressure on him originated at first due to him being legitimately very busy with the game starting at a bad time for him, and no other PA player was around to confirm that was the case so I had to kind of grit my teeth and bear it when he was being taunted for being a "typical inactive scum",
"did your scumteammates come and yell at you to post", etc, all to him playing the same way he always plays. Ugh. Honestly there's a fair chance I'd probably think along the same way to someone I didn't know but still, ugh.

At least a couple of exceptional folks did make some good observations and place votes on him not because he was inactive but because of some good insight into his response to the pressure, which is how things should work in mafia, really.

The rest of the thread, the shenanigans involved, definitely great. Thanks for making this happen hosts!

Actually on my laptop again.

Couple thoughts I guess.

Angleshooting: This seems to be a very broad term here and I'm trying to fully understand its meaning. I dont think Athexx did anything modkill worthy with his post.

If he wants to softclaim that his role is something in this list, then that is his to do.

I dont see any particular issue with asking questions in the thread, even role related ones. Its oftentimes easiest if everyone gets one nice uniform answer from the mod about role resolutions when its relevant.

I DO NOT condone someting like
Q: I am a tracker, hey mod what happens if my target is blocked?
Mod answer to that should be: I cannot answer that.

I agree that outside bets or prop bets are not good and should be disregarded.
"I will change my avatar to whatever you want if Im mafia..etc"

--------

Wanted to give a shoutout to Weareking, Marvel, Fank, Nana, Pizzaguy, Chrja.

Just found ya'll really fun to play with. Although I enjoyed everyone!

Thanks for hosting the game 2+2, Thingy and RJ. Fun to watch. Also thanks to the players for taking part.

In regards to angleshooting, it's a pejorative term. Nobody agrees it's kosher - it is basically cheating without cheating. The issue is not people agreeing that angleshooting is okay. The issue is that people have different ideas of what constitutes angleshooting. To counteract this, it should be spelled out for the expectations of all involved. While some instances are more abundantly clear than others in regards to cheating and angleshooting, it often is interpretative.

I'm not interested in further disintegrating the conversation too much to what is or is not angleshooting, but I expect all players taking part to play by the rules given even when it's different from their own forums. The expectations just need to be as clear as possible so as to give people the choice to be involved under such stipulations and when they do to aid them in adhering to it.

Hey, I'm curious, who are you on PA? :P

I was moderately amused by mastin scumreading Pizza so hard. I thought Pizza was the most obvious town in the thread on D1 because he was just so aggressive and shameless and down in it.

So Im not totally sober, and I'm reading random parts of the thread and I get to this Pizza post, imagining it from mastin's eyes. I could not stop laughing for like a minute. I could just imagine mastin reading "It comes with its own oven in the back, so your pizza is guaranteed toasy" and thinking "My god, this is the most deceptive scum player Ive seen in a while"

It really was too much for me.

But I love you mastin. no ****.

Rawkking Goodguy. Any interesting reason why you ask?

Edit:

Man, seriously. I was rooting so hard for a Mastin/DrippingGoofball POWER TEAM to be the final, wonderfully brazen and aggressive mafia, that I was somewhat disappointed when it became clear it wasn't the case.

I actually forgot Infidel was my scum buddy when he started posting on D1.

I want to make it clear that while you can certainly debate whether X thing should be acceptable or not (and if a forum decides it's not, then it becomes against the rules and therefore a potential angleshoot), in the mod's opinion no one came even close to trying to intentionally get around any sort of rules, in form or in spirit.

If anyone is to blame for the "mod questions" issue it's the mod team for not making it more clear OR not warning players for violating it. But we didn't, and other forums have other standards, and we essentially ran this game under less stringent "mod communication" standards than are usually seen in POG.

It's up to whoever mods future games to determine what standards are going to apply, but you can hardly blame players from different forums for not adhering to 2p2 norms when those norms are clearly spelled out.

I was just interested to know if you were one of the people that I had PM'ed asking for suggestions on who to pick from PA which you don't seem to be if my recollection is right :P

But I'm happy that you found your way here to rail the game, I think that's absolutely awesome!

Oh, IP is the reveal I almost screwed up.

Because, you know, IP and AP. I had literally copy/pasted AP's role PM into IP's lynch when I caught it while doing the final review.

So yeah. Almost blew the wolf team apart there. Whew.

Marvel Fank and Pizzaguy were very good players, Pizza got killed too early but I thought his D1 was brilliant. Marvel did a good job making himself obvious town all game, I never once thought of a vote on him. Fank...he played his exact town game that I said he would. Came up with a lot of crazy theories in the game some of which were kinda ridiculous but that's just his paranoid type thinking.

Chrja's start to the game was pretty good and I put him in my town list until later on, when it was clear his activity dwindled massively and it felt a lot like scum demotivation. Which is plausible seeing how town had just got off like 3 or 4 lynches in a row and vig had shot 2 scum at nice. Demotivation is very hard to hide when posting, and town have really no reason to be at that point in the game. He got lynched around when he should have so that was good, but to me he felt like the only scum that played semi decently barring AP, so I'm happy that the last two scum alive were those two.

I do have to give a hats off to binkles. Even tho I do think his shots were kinda mainstream and shots that pretty much anyone in the game could have made, he did shoot 2 scum in the first 2 nights and I can't take that away from him.

I suppose I was a little hard on Devourer/Infidel, but I really did find the fact they lurked all day and came back posting right when they started being called out on it a bit suspicious. Infidel immediately coming around and attacking me for it kinda sealed it for me tho, he had no logical reason at all to scumread me and to me it was clearly him trying to either discredit my read or attack me for attacking him, which is more scum play than town play. I had every right to think he was mafia and I apologize if I was a bit harsh but I had to get the lynch across. Marvel posted a good case on him/Verbal and that seemed to be the wagons throughout the day, I tried to get one started on Devourer but no one really listened so I settled on Infidel instead.

fwiw I know chrja personally and he was just legit busy

Yup.

Soah, Weareking, Pizza, Fank, Marvel, Binkles all had to be killed. Simply far too town in the game. Too proactive, too engaged, too good at just being obvious town.

I've seen mod errors made like this. In one game the TOWN Jack (this person had a protect, scan, kill, which he could use once each in the game), sent a late PM to the mod by about 2 minutes. The reveal had not yet been up and not only did the mod accept it, but the scan was placed on the godfather and he told the jack that the godfather was mafia. The mod offered to the scum team to end the game right there but they decided to continue and ended up winning with a ridiculous claim.

@King re Binkles: Ya I think he had correctly identified everyone on my team but me.

And was shoving the right people of his scum lists.

He probably should have been killed off before Pizza, but his play just got even better on D2 and I figured the confirmed townie should go first. I also had a slight glimmer of hope that Binkles was one of those townies that was right but probably mislynchable. And mislynching him would have been less incriminating on the people he was nailing.

so, which site's representatives does everyone think performed second best?

Also Binkles is a more emotional player, and on the emotional side of the game I was coming of super villagery...just was this game, I was kinda into it. Its why Traz had a hard time reading me.

Nana, when she stopped to think about me, called me out on a lot of good points that I couldn't wave away like I knew some players would let me do.