... obviously, Like we didnt get that point allready... :/ unless you had a change of heart? :P

are you admitting yourself to being scum marvel??? :P
I've allready given my reasons on believing foolish's scans to be town, like you said, when foolish dies, no one is confirmed, but is anyone here really bussing, given this fact...
My thoughts on the matter. Maybe im leaning on to that leaning too much on believing that cop claim.

atm this is the main reason for my argument.
I concur, foolish has not played the best of games. (heck, I saw him as a potential scum day 2...)

BUT... And I will stand strong to this... the night kill/attempts may tell all...
Lets list all the ways it could have been stopped... (again...)
-Goofball Blocking Bloodfox
-AP being shot at as BP
-Vig went for the 2nd "mason" not realising they were lovers


How was scum to know???
but if that's true... how about this for a case...

Foolish, tossed the idea around a bit... but may I present to you #1108
with this much talk of lovers, and traz's kind words of wisdom, Do you really think that Foolish would split the kills???
granted, it doesnt matter who takes the shot, as long as scum have a plan...
And we ask this q, would foolish allow AP, to get shot at... and lose someone to claim whatever on (im gonna say village cause its always safe to village people). so we come to one conclusion,
Foolish is ONLY maf, is if bloodfox is Vig (or huge doc wifom)

now... lets go back to the flip side of the coin...
Murska made no mention of lovers, none whatsoever...
and then we have this priceless gem.
someone gained some brains all of a sudden...
enough of bloodfox, thats not my point though... add traz to the mix.. (yes Im going to keep pushing this scumteam for as long as i can :/)
What if this was a cover for a possible mistake???
I am going to reread murska, So i can get more of a lean on him than just my mechanical one.

fank, I'd like you to marry me.

We can sit on the porch, I'll smoke a nice joint, and you can just ramble on at me; and I will enjoy what you're saying, and enjoy listening, without really understanding what you're talking about or where you're going.

Sounds like perfection.

And I'll look at you, and say, you stubborn mule.

TL;DR
My general argument has 3 cruxes
-Murska claiming handicapped cop while giga was full, (no handicap) doesnt make sense.
-Foolish could not have made the night kill, unless under special circumstances
-Foolish's town reads all look town to me.

Ah, I enjoy TLDRs ^_^

Your first bulletpoint is baseless speculation. You have no logical reason to assert this. There is literally 0 reason why having a full cop and an odd-cop isn't a possible setup. The 2nd? Not sure why? meh

Tell me, why would an unsuspicious Murska out himself totally to kill Foolish? Is outing a hidden mafia member really worth a couple of extra townie deaths? If so, why?

-If you didnt know, I live on baseless speculation :P. oh and no "logical reason".. how about I was in a game, with a similar size, (mish mash fyi) and there was a even night and an odd night afiliation cop, fine with you???
-you do bring up a good point... maybe we are missing something??? it doesnt make logical sense... (at first). and maybe that's what I'll read into ... but my 1st thoughts, is that... get cop mislynched, kill 2 of the clears, and we have nothing again... so... not really nothing gained... as long as vig is alive, maf can take care of cop's clears... Murska isnt maf vig though.

Murska also has the plus, of not really being connected to anyone, so maf can still hide in the shadows...

None of this really makes sense

- the fact you had an odd/even cop in a game that isn't this one says absolutely nothing about this game

- again, this doesn't explain why a couple of townie deaths is worth outing a not very suspicious mafia for. Because, ya know, scum can still shoot at us whoever we lynch ;p I still fail to see why a couple of townie deaths is worth outing another mafia for :/

Them both being mafia actually makes some sense to me... I'm not gonna push this idea right now because it's a bit out there, but I think it's possible

so why the fudge out himself like this??

you prolly dont get it... if Murska flips scum... who would you go to from there???

agreed, I should take nothing for granted. nothing at all... I just find it very wierd that a odd night cop is in the game...
(Arguing again, especially since giga flipped full, full role cop)

Murska... I would like clarification, who's list was it you were replying to in #267???

It's totally irrelevant?

If Murska flips mafia (after we lynch foolish) then we're in the same position but with one less mafia and a couple less townies

this is a net win for town, not mafia

If you can make the argument it's a net win for mafia, then I'm listening

... Nothings irrelevant, from my angle, you are saying that we will start again at "square one" but town will just lynch maf as always... Yes, we would never be at square one, but having 8/9 people to cast suspicion over is better for maf than having 6/9 (as an example figure...) (odds get better as town numbers dwindle... (best example is 3/3 instead of 2/3 people being suspicious)

holy **** didnt get home untill jsut now, Many apologies. going to bed then I'll be able to defend myself... while raiding. why does my life get chaotic once this game starts?

ok... ummm... maybe I'm missing something, but I dont see a reason as to why you should have the need to defend yourself at this present time...

Rereading murska (up to day 3)

-popping hi, finding nana suspicious off the bat
-talking about the useless ness of lean lists
-grilling Binkles regarding 1st lean list...
-ahhh, a lovely throwback to the past... Im not going to add any more than what I've already said, and the implications should be seen here...


-doesnt like the meta play.
-answering q's about FoS (and so on)
-states the obvious about the mno wagon
-hugging up to anstonio/mno about there humanity as town pr's
day 2
hmmm... kind of funny... considering foolish was targeted for being on Mno... (and seeing he "CC's" him on day 4???)
-analysis on everyone... (#1099 for reference)
In all your quotes... I only see you mention 2 maf... Cyan and mango... (interesting)
-apologizing for writing a book... come on... really? you never know, it might be a best seller...
-retorts the scum with mango argument...

-murska... your not quoting... and Im finding it hard to see who you are actually responding too in some of these posts (of course there is a general idea, but im tired and braindead, so you get the idea...)

-a bunch of one liners,
-followed by a case on magic

hmmm why are you worried about not being talked about????
also that discussion of what to do IF mango flips scum... nice wording there... town points for that... :P

And that brings us up to day 4...

Votes from post 2358 to post 2892
Night in 12:00:57
---

Votes	Lynch	Voters
7	Foolishness	TaylorFitz (6), AngryPidgeon (96), Magic no wait UDFK (14), mastin2 (89), marvellosity (64), Verbal32 (48), Murska (30)
3	Blood Fox	Nana7 (31), DrippingGoofball (28), Athexx (8)
2	Murska	fank009 (40), Foolishness (10)
3	not voting	traz (47), chrja (0), Blood Fox (11)

hmmmm... why do i see so many similarities with the infidel case :/ (well not a lot, but they are there...)

scum tells from murska...
-not liking meta play... whats wrong with people clearing each other???
-buddying up to Mno/astonio (come on, thats what my case on infidel was about (in a nutshell)
-not a lot of substace when an important vote is in... AND stayed out of the way...
-not a LOT of mention of other confirmed scum

Town tells from murska...
-Genuine scum hunting when available (or is that just writing a book? I cant tell :P)

nothing else really... nothing really screaming town imo... I do see the cop claim a bit... with that bit of crumbing... but I still dont see a lot on it..
Still a waste of a scan... You really thought, you being an odd night cop, that foolish would be an all nights cop???

Really murska???

now on to reading day 4...
Okay... I am holding the phone... And I am going to scream...
HOW IS THAT A CC???? You are an ODD (wish i could bolden :/) Night cop... you have different abilities to a full cop like foolish, but most importantly...
eh, traz can say it for me...

THIS is your attitude, there is no way that you can exist with foolish, right? and there is only one way in which you have any grounds to say that. and that is if you have knowledge... NO one can have the kind of knowledge you are demanding, but maf can create it...
THAT, Is enough, for no longer a mecahnical lean on you murska.

The Mango thing is the weirdest thing about Murska's claim I guess.

Like, he says he has a scumread on Mango, fine. But then when Foolish claims a redcheck on Mango, he's so sure of his read on Mango being mafia that he thinks the most likely explanation is a mafia Foolishness fakeclaiming to kill another mafia?

that's definitely weird.

..... hang on, I missed something...
(I feel like such a chump right now :/)
lets back track now...
what we know...

Giga was NOT handicapped. and had a N0 action...
Foolish claims not handicapped, claims to have a N0 action...
Murska Claims odd night cop, Scanned foolish as scum...

of the two... Murska feels more natural, in the sense that it would take a lot to fake claim an ODD night role. There just seems to be a lot of inconsitencies (technical and what murska has said), 1) why let the full role cop be unhandicapped??? 2) why did you claim as a "CC", there is no mention of multiple roles being or not being in the game...
Both of them are equally scummy in my eyes, and I'm going to stand by my arguemnt... that we would learn a lot more from a murska flip, then a foolish flip. (imo)

My thoughts...
IF murska is not scum...
one of AP/Mastin... more than likely mastin...
one of Chrja/bloodfox
and maybe Magic/athexx (though more than unlikely)

What? I thought you'd been arguing that if Murska flips mafia then there were no connections and we wouldn't learn anything new? What am I missing in what you've said?

... No, I was arguing on why Murska would claim as scum... (get your facts straight woman :P)