Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Heads Up NL Discussion of heads up NL Texas Hold'em cash games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2018, 06:54 PM   #1
Donovan
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: aka Navonod (there's no AKA)
Posts: 1,411
Why is everyone 3 betting 98s vs MR HU?

I'm seeing a big trend amongst the players in my player pool and the guys on the forums.

In heads up NLH, I know we are OOP when we are the bb and pondering a 3 bet but I still think we can be more polarized than this????


What the hell am I missing?


If someone asked me what the worst hand you could every possibly 3 bet vs a min raise at HU NLH was at most stack depth I think my first instinct would be to say "98s"

we are getting such a good price
we don't block anything
we will not get called by many worse hands
we will not get many better hands to fold
we will dominate very few hands that call us
we will be dominated by plenty of calls; 88+, A9, T9s, Q9s, T8s, etc

and we have a hand that really likes to have room to maneuver/a high SPR..

We have good synergy and nut potential and our hand will over realize do to its suited connectivity and we want to have hands like this that can flop strong draws to kinda work along side our baby pairs like 22-whatever you don't 3 bet) so we can have sets and draws in our check raise ranges (minor thing, I realize, but maybe worth mentioning)

Basically I want to know what a better flat call looks like

IF YOU ARE NOT FLATTING 98s vs min raise HU WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU FLATTING???

Why?

What have I missed in the year or two I have not been active here???
Donovan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 05:54 AM   #2
feature7
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Riga, Latvia
Posts: 36
Re: Why is everyone 3 betting 98s vs MR HU?

With year or 2 you mean 15 or 20?
You are so off you shouldn't even be playing HU!

But I will give you a solid and give you an advice.
Find 3bet ranges online and stick to them.


Just fyi
Main things to consider, open %, fold to 3bet, playability, board coverage.
feature7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 09:43 AM   #3
iamallin
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lonely planet
Posts: 267
Re: Why is everyone 3 betting 98s vs MR HU?

Yeah mate..getting better to fold and worse to call is poker logic 2010

Current solver supported strategy is : specially preflop and flop you are trying to set up a comprehensive poa and have resilient ranges that can handle any turn and river runouts

To answer your specific question : you can still have 89o as a flat pre there you go

Counter question : if you are not 3 betting 89s pre how do you ever have nutted hands on low boards?
iamallin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 03:29 PM   #4
Donovan
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: aka Navonod (there's no AKA)
Posts: 1,411
Re: Why is everyone 3 betting 98s vs MR HU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamallin View Post
Yeah mate..getting better to fold and worse to call is poker logic 2010

Current solver supported strategy is : specially preflop and flop you are trying to set up a comprehensive poa and have resilient ranges that can handle any turn and river runouts

To answer your specific question : you can still have 89o as a flat pre there you go

Counter question : if you are not 3 betting 89s pre how do you ever have nutted hands on low boards?
My strategy with micro up to nl25 HU is different from my strategy at higher than that or once I realize I'm playing a guy who can actually play.

But, if my opponent is bad enough that I don't feel like I have to depolarize and be too concerned with things like board coverage I am 3 betting a very polarized range. Particularly when my opponent is min raising...

are we sure we are considering that factor? I mean, I have way more incentive to 3 bet if my opponent is going 2.4-3x right? Or, maybe the better way to look at it would be that I have so much incentive to call vs minraise that I need a 3 bet range to be very high EV because we are not just comparing it to calling a bigger open or folding we are comparing it to flatting vs a min raise when there's already 3bb in the pot and I only have to call one more bb. Heads UP.

So, again AS LONG AS VILLAIN IS NOT FORCING ME TO CHANGE MY APPROACH I want to use a very polarized 3 bet range.. vs min raise? VERY polar.

Maybe 77+, ATo+, A8s+, for sure KJs/o, KQs/o, and depending on depth (I play HU SnG's mostly) I could use QJs and KTs as 3 bets if 75bb ball park and QJo and KTo but flat the suited ones if we are not quite that deep. That's my value range (kind of, it's really hard to say without talking about stack depth of course, or reads on my opponent). Then I just do the ol' circa 2010 polarized light 3 bet thing where I use the best hands that I don't want to call with and the worst hands I could call with to construct my default 3 bet "bluff" range. Something like; A20, Q3s, K4o, 54o, 54s, 63s, and I actually do like the 74s as mentioned.

IF I actually think my opponent is punishing me on the middle-low boards I will depolarize by adding in some of the 65s, 76o, 87o stuff. If I'm only getting 4 bets and folds I take the SCs out and add in more of the high card hands with the broadway blockers, if I am only getting folds and calls I get rid of the stuff like K4o, A2o, Q3s and swich to the SCs.



I guess I wanna ask this then;

Is this really just a matter of trying to cover a lot of boards and not give your opponent an easy path to exploitation?

And

Would your strategy change if you, like me, play anonymous on ignition and only 25nl and smaller?

OR

Would you change your strategy to something more like a polarized 3 bet range with a lot more hands calling if you knew for sure your opponent had no HUD stats and if you knew you were playing vs a fish who has ~ 0 chance of understanding coverage and mercilessly attacking your c-bets on boards where he has a big range advantage?
Donovan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 09:30 AM   #5
TheGodson
old hand
 
TheGodson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Merica!
Posts: 1,702
Re: Why is everyone 3 betting 98s vs MR HU?

98s is a good hand. It can hit a lot of boards and has great bluffing potential.

Generally, the smaller the size the more you want to be calling and also 3-betting.

I think 98s has a lot more bluffing potential which is more important in a 3-bet pot. That pot will be bigger so it is more important to have good hands there.

On an anonymous site such as ignition, I'd probably play the same as I do in any heads up game. For what it is worth, I don't really change my 3-bet range all that much. I may choose not to 3-bet 63s if they are a station or want to 4-bet jam all the time, but I can usually use the same 3-bet range vs. a bad player as a good player.
TheGodson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:20 PM   #6
MjrMjrMjrMjr
stranger
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4
Re: Why is everyone 3 betting 98s vs MR HU?

+1^ Great hand to 3bet, 4bet.

Why- it's relatively easy to play post flop, vs a hand like k9s, or a9s, etc.
MjrMjrMjrMjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:17 AM   #7
feature7
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Riga, Latvia
Posts: 36
Re: Why is everyone 3 betting 98s vs MR HU?

Have respect for the cash game and don't ask ***** SNG questions here!

There are bunch of occasions when you want to use a polar 3betting range, but as a standard you use merged one!

I already said, main things to consider: open %, fold to 3bet, playability, board coverage and cbet/fold to cbet %.

Do the research, I wont spoon-feed you the info.
feature7 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online