Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardnel
We have top 2 pair against a fish in a 3b pot. I am fist pumping getting the money in and I don't care that a flush draw got there. You guys think the donk is going to fold KK AA AQ KQ on the turn? This is not how donks play.
Only upside to checking is that you let him bluff his AK AT T9 stuff which is not nearly enough of a reason IMO. But now that you've taken that line you should capture that bluff on a good run out. I wouldn't be shocked to see KK either here at all.
Edit: Biggest reason to just bet the turn BTW is that you don't want to miss value against AQ KK etc when, say, a 4th club rolls off. You also create a situation where he bluffs you with AK no club on a 4 club run out or something like 9T turned into a bluff also. You also let those hands all catch up for free - donk is going to call with so many pair + draws on the turn... relative to a handful of flush combos. It is actually completely bad to check the turn.
Your logic is internally right ofc. But you aren't discounting AA, KK, AQ and KQ, about half of those we can expect to just shove the flop. The problem with your argument is it goes too far imo. Yeah, a fish is going to overcall this turn and spew shove with some hands he shouldn't, but he would have to be calling almost twice the normal number of combos for bet/calling to be clearly viable. Most of the time projections assuming hugely widened calling ranges based on board texture alone don't pan out. It turns out some fish do fold enough of those weaker pair + draw hands that it isn't going to be accurate to say he's calling with 65+ combos imo, which would be right on the borderline to allow us to bet. There are around 30 combos that beat us and much of his calling range that we beat has solid equity, not to mention we are not playing particularly well vs raises.
If he calls 65+ combos its viable. In practice that's probably taking it too far.