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Old 03-28-2017, 06:15 AM   #1
doylebrunson1337
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Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

1.We are sb/dealer and what hand do we prefer to have, Q7os or/and vs JTs?

2.We are bb and what hand do we prefer to have Q7os or/and vs JTs?
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:08 AM   #2
Joe Knott
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

Don't you see how beautiful JT, JT, JT and JT are?
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:01 AM   #3
thrasher789
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

JTs in both cases. Much much more playable in that it makes many hands that can profitably semi bluff/bluff as well as nut/near nut hands that can extract a ton of value.
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:46 PM   #4
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

JTs always. Flops much better and has more equity in more spots.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:45 PM   #5
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

the f
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:36 PM   #6
doylebrunson1337
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

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Originally Posted by Meldras View Post
JTs always. Flops much better and has more equity in more spots.
True.

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Originally Posted by thrasher789 View Post
JTs in both cases. Much much more playable in that it makes many hands that can profitably semi bluff/bluff as well as nut/near nut hands that can extract a ton of value.
Does JTs have implied odds enough to extract value? For example the flop come JT9 rainbow and BB checks to SB that is holding Q7os since a c-bet is very much likely to happen from a SB raise pre-flop but in this case, will Q7os c-bet enough of the times? And if SB checks behind then BB is most likely win 1 bet on turn. For what good is 2 pair when VILLAIN is chasing a better hand for free?

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Don't you see how beautiful JT, JT, JT and JT are?
Beautiful hands is what beginners play and beautiful hands is what a player with knowledge realises after playing for a while.

Last edited by doylebrunson1337; 03-31-2017 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:44 PM   #7
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

I just remembered a hand that is like this scenario with Phil Ivey holding Q-high in a HU duel https://youtu.be/--Qap3VT_ZY

And what I think of it is that JTs could be a better hand but that is what it is with not only the flop gives, it is what it gives all the way to the river.

edit: if BB has Q7os then that player could float on a bet on flop with the idea of stealing later on because of SBs range while floating with JTs only gives backdoor chances imo.

Last edited by doylebrunson1337; 03-31-2017 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:26 AM   #8
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

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I just remembered a hand that is like this scenario with Phil Ivey holding Q-high in a HU duel https://youtu.be/--Qap3VT_ZY
Off topic: Jackson actually has equity to call that all-in bet from Ivey.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:28 PM   #9
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

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Originally Posted by doylebrunson1337 View Post

Does JTs have implied odds enough to extract value? For example the flop come JT9 rainbow and BB checks to SB that is holding Q7os since a c-bet is very much likely to happen from a SB raise pre-flop but in this case, will Q7os c-bet enough of the times? And if SB checks behind then BB is most likely win 1 bet on turn. For what good is 2 pair when VILLAIN is chasing a better hand for free?

Since this is the HU forum I assume you are addressing these hands strictly from a HU standpoint in which it would be very dependent upon the opponent as to whether or not JTs is profitable given different positions and situations, that said, in general it certainly is, particularly 100+ bb deep.

In the example you gave I would expect opponent to be cbetting his button open with the OESD almost 100% of the time to which we would respond by c/r and getting a lot of value when he calls, which he usually will and his hand will now look like what it is, a bare OESD which let's us play close to optimally.
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:28 AM   #10
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

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Originally Posted by doylebrunson1337 View Post
1.We are sb/dealer and what hand do we prefer to have, Q7os or/and vs JTs?

2.We are bb and what hand do we prefer to have Q7os or/and vs JTs?
Can't you check your winrates for both situations with these two hands? Once that's done you can decide if you "prefer" winning or losing more frequently and you'll have your answer.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:35 PM   #11
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

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Originally Posted by doylebrunson1337 View Post
1.We are sb/dealer and what hand do we prefer to have, Q7os or/and vs JTs?

2.We are bb and what hand do we prefer to have Q7os or/and vs JTs?
Allin preflop, Q7. Otherwise, JTs
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:09 PM   #12
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

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Can't you check your winrates for both situations with these two hands? Once that's done you can decide if you "prefer" winning or losing more frequently and you'll have your answer.
I just did it for the past month and JTs was a big winner and Q7o a 50bb/100 loser, though the sample size was lol small so not worth much. I'll check entire database of HU hands if I can get FullTilt/PStars to send me pre black friday hand files.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:40 AM   #13
doylebrunson1337
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Re: Q7os vs JTs from bb and sb, two questions.

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Originally Posted by fscomeau View Post
Allin preflop, Q7. Otherwise, JTs
I like the way you think. (returning customers are the best customers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher789 View Post
Since this is the HU forum I assume you are addressing these hands strictly from a HU standpoint in which it would be very dependent upon the opponent as to whether or not JTs is profitable given different positions and situations, that said, in general it certainly is, particularly 100+ bb deep.

In the example you gave I would expect opponent to be cbetting his button open with the OESD almost 100% of the time to which we would respond by c/r and getting a lot of value when he calls, which he usually will and his hand will now look like what it is, a bare OESD which let's us play close to optimally.
With standard big blind folding range I would myself not dare to bet q-high on a board with 3 high cards but since I dont play HE HU maybe my line of checking that flop is not good but in case that we are betting a OESD on 3high-card board then VILLAIN can check/raise but with today field of players aint it GTO to just call (two pair on rainbow) in that spot for VILLAIN and then decide on turn depending on the outcome? I am asking since I have no idea. edit: My thought right now says that BB will call with Q7os with the intention of bluffing small blind/dealer and with JTs going after implied odds aiming to win the stack without bluffing. Like comparing a double barrelled shotgun with a Desert Eagle with scope sight.

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Originally Posted by Lazaro View Post
Can't you check your winrates for both situations with these two hands? Once that's done you can decide if you "prefer" winning or losing more frequently and you'll have your answer.
I havent played HE HU sng or HE HU cash (Only the first quarter year when I started playing online poker I only played HU cash but those days was different... mm potraiser +80%rakeback ) and I have never used HUDs except for that software (2010-2011) that had all players hand on every site in their database allowed to all subscribers, that I tried but after outplaying a couple of 35%ers in a ring game I considered it cheating and removed the software.

I made it to HU in 180 player SNG and both of the times both me and VILLAIN played it passive by calling 75% of the playable hands, if I remember correctly I raised Q8os pre and got called by Q7os and we both flopped trips.

(in 6handed) I float loose players when having a deep stack in tournaments mostly often with Q7os on the button and avoided JTs if another player called the first bettor but I have no stats as I wrote. They say SC are better the merrier but my experience says Q7os is better three-way than JTs since the first callers range has worse than AQ but better than JTs in its range while the first raiser probably has us both covered.

Last edited by doylebrunson1337; 04-04-2017 at 03:51 AM.
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