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Old 08-25-2013, 06:17 PM   #151
BiggerBoots
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I think having "a" tables at the top of the lobby, and having a System like Ipoker accidently had before where you can get more tables than others by sitting regs and stealing there tables is best.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #152
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by torodwan View Post

A heads up chat lobby is seems like a great idea for reg on reg action.
ongame has a client wide chat box, it's basicly either a microstakes bad beat story or someone saying ongame is rigged
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:20 PM   #153
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I don't think either option is optimal, but I'd prefer option 1 (with a lot of tweaks) over option 2, because we already had something simliar to option 2 a couple of years ago and it was horrible.

I've got 2 major issues with option 1:

1.) It will eventually wipe recreational players out of these games, there is no way a
recreational player will stand a chance by playing only vs the top players at any
stake, on the other hand they will from time to time win vs weaker regs, which is
overall quite benificial for a healthy HU ecosystem.

2.) There is too much room for abuse, I don't like the fact of beeing punished for declining
action, while I'm already playing a 4 table HU match.
In my opinion there should be some benifits for giving action to other regs, so I've got 2 suggestions:

a.) Implement the option of opening a new table at that stake while giving action.

b.) Allow declining action to anyone while already playing a HU table.
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Old 08-25-2013, 10:57 PM   #154
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I don't know what the answer is but I know for a near axiomatic fact that its probably the opposite of whats been done with HULHE.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:23 AM   #155
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by cumicon View Post
It is based on my experiences. When I first started learning HUPLO I just bumhunted it. I immediately had a high win rate. I now consider myself to be one of the top regulars at my stakes. I still have a high win rate vs. fish. I'm sure I have a better win rate vs. them now than I did before, but I don't think it is a massive difference.
I suspect from your response that you're not, like the vast majority of us, going to end up as one of the elite regs under Nick's proposed systems. And then it will be too late (see the SSNL CAP tables fiasco).
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:09 AM   #156
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

i like a modified version of #2

only 10-20 tables are visible by default for each limit and the others are hidden. the tables that are visible are random and different in every client


anything different than this then you're going to have groups of regs teaming up to control the games


i think the best ideal is to cap the amount of tables and stakes someone can camp at, say 2 different limits and only 1 table at each.

if you really wanted to get extreme just make all the hu tables anonymous

Last edited by r0eKY; 08-26-2013 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:01 AM   #157
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

after reading and thinking about this the fairest solution to everyone is to have a cap for each limit but make the visible tables different in each client. after 10 mins or by clicking a refresh button a new random group of 10 tables would become visible. simple
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:53 AM   #158
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Nick - why not HU ZOOM?
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:53 AM   #159
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0eKY View Post
after reading and thinking about this the fairest solution to everyone is to have a cap for each limit but make the visible tables different in each client. after 10 mins or by clicking a refresh button a new random group of 10 tables would become visible. simple
And if you refuse action you won't be able to sit for one hour. And if you have played 100hands or whatever vs the same opponent you get the right to sit out vs him for 24hours.

I think this could actually work.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:06 AM   #160
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0eKY View Post
after reading and thinking about this the fairest solution to everyone is to have a cap for each limit but make the visible tables different in each client. after 10 mins or by clicking a refresh button a new random group of 10 tables would become visible. simple
Yes this is by far the best solution and one that i would be excited to be part of.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:07 AM   #161
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

There is a lot of flaming in this thread and in general hate to "bum hunters / lottery players" but something that people have not mentioned is other ways these players contribute to the stars, i for one would consider myself a "weak player" and a bum hunter at times when things aren't going well, that said this does not mean i solely play HU on stars, stars + Full tilt are my favourite sites by a long way and I enjoy playing there. as i have a decent size roll on stars and FT it is very common that i will just donk around playing ZOOM 5/10 or 2/5 this goes for, Omaha 6max, SNG's and mainly MTT's when i have a Sunday free or they have a series on, i realise i am not making much money (if at all) in these games but i play it because i enjoy playing on stars but most importantly and this is by far the most important, i have a decent size roll on the site which i use for heads up play. i can 100% say i would not be playing these games at all if i didn’t have money on stars, in fact i would go out my way to not deposit just to play ZOOM or at MTT which im breakeven at best, as i have access to these games easily as i already have funds there and im thankful to stars for allowing such a fair heads up lobby i am more than happy to contribute to their overall economy, this also goes for live events which i have registered on site and SAT's to live events, this would not be possible for me if i wasn’t able to play heads poker on stars like i currently am playing.

If say KOTH came in i would have to most likely withdraw and won’t be able to be part of poker stars.

I think it’s important to realise that not all bum hunters are just only sat there waiting for Jesus games, we are also donking around unknown all over the place, FACT!
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:16 AM   #162
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Really dislike option one. It gives the top 1-2 regs for each stake way too much control, and higher stakes players who have grudges against certain midstakes players can hunt them. Also, what happens if I'm away from the computer for 5-10mins getting lunch but leave the table open? Would I lose the 10-20 blinds for sitting out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanu View Post
Ok, here is the solution:

Capped number of tables with 1 person sitting at each limit. Most people agree this is the best solution. BUT have this number of tables adjust itself to find the best number for any particular time at any particular level. Stars must have a ton of data on how many matches are going on at different times of day/days of the week etc. From this data they can get a base estimate of what a "normal amount" of action is at any given time. They then raise this figure a little to account for the fact that we hope this will generate more action. Then they start off by introducing a fairly arbitrary table cap. If at any point there is a sub-standard amount of action going on at any limit for a period of 10 minutes then the table cap randomly either increases or decreases by 1 at that limit. If it increases by 1 then there is a new table to fight for, perhaps more than 1 person will fight for it. If it decreases by 1 then 2 of the players (chosen at random) get moved from 2 seperate tables to the same table. Whichever quits first no longer has a table. They may then sit with any of the other seated players in order to fight for a different table if they wish.

You could make the algorithm for doing all this as simple or as complicated as you like but basically the job of it would be to use the data gained by all of these different table cap numbers to predict what a good table cap should be at any given time and then it would move around a bit about that number to account for exactly who is online at that time. If you wanted, you could link this with the forced hands option with the alteration that you can refuse action after x hands/day vs someone. People would then have to play some for the right to sit and then also action would be encouraged whenever it was looking a bit dry at any limit. I think this would maximise the amount being played about as well as it is possible to do and shouldn't be open to massive exploits. You could also have the starting table cap number different for each day/week or whatever so that people might be more encouraged to take a shot when there's a high table limit at the limit above where they play. Also this gets more data for how well different caps do. I was going to go into more detail but decided my time would be better spent losing nearly half a mill at 400/800 and now want to go to bed rather than finish this post lol. But you get the general idea already, can go into more detail another time if stars are interested in something along these lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjemmy View Post
If the 1 table per player is implemented then obviously there needs to be some kind of ''add table''-feature like on Full Tilt. The table will then disappear after a match is finished.

Also, thanks to Pokerstars for doing this. Hopefully the same thing can be done with FTP.
+1

A similar lobby to that of HUSNGs with a capped number of tables per stake and 1 table per stake per player. This allows strong and weaker regulars (not necessarily weak compared to the entire field, but weaker than the top 1%) to share a limited number of lobbies. It gets rid of the lottery players as they will give up the table when sat my a better reg and it gives recreational players a range of opponents to choose from. If the capped number of tables is reached and someone sits you, you have the option to play or give up the table to them and can in turn sit against another players at that stake that you consider weaker.

Some issues however:
- timebanking and slow playing every hand when a stronger reg sits you (this could be dealt with the same way it is in sngs by giving out warnings to players who do this)

- players with friends at higher stakes getting them to 'hunt' other regs (example: 10 table cap is reached and reg 11 comes online, he is better than reg 10 and sits his table; reg 10 leaves but gets his friend from higher stakes to sit reg 11, friend then leaves the table after reg 11 denies action in order open up the table again and lets reg 10 retake the seat)

edit:

An option similar to Stars option 2 combined with a capped number of tables where there are unlimited lobbies per stake available, while keeping the 1 table per stake per player rule. However only the top x (10) tables per stake are visible without going into the lobby settings. They would always be the same tables, tables numbered 1-10. This allows those who want to battle for the top 10 spots to do so and it allows lottery players to get the lower end tables which will likely get significantly less action.

Last edited by micros; 08-26-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:37 AM   #163
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Why dont you make the change so that the people that open sit the hu tables have to rake a certain amount the previous month? This will give the weak regulars the chance to play each other and maybe even the lottery players will give it a go?
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #164
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

obviously best solution is cap the number of tables like people have been saying for years in the format others have described here. zzz.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:50 PM   #165
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

i kinda like the idea behind #1

instead of having a fixed amount of hands you have to play, why not allow the player who sits first decide a minimum number of hands (option added in lobby to set minimum # of hands they would like to play) so when another player sits they get a box come up saying "partywme would like to play a minimum of 50 hands, click yes to play or no to leave" (no more blind stealing!!!)

Make the HU lobby look a lot more like ZOOM. Once you click the stake you wish to play you get a list of players waiting for a game appear (similar to zoom) at this point click which player you wish to play and table is created. Maybe an incentive for playing lots of hands could be that your name is at the top of the list every time you join the "lobby"

at least then the guys who just want to bum hunt are always at the bottom of the list of players and there for are a lot less likely to get action.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:33 PM   #166
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pkrjker View Post
There is a lot of flaming in this thread and in general hate to "bum hunters / lottery players" but something that people have not mentioned is other ways these players contribute to the stars, i for one would consider myself a "weak player" and a bum hunter at times when things aren't going well, that said this does not mean i solely play HU on stars, stars + Full tilt are my favourite sites by a long way and I enjoy playing there. as i have a decent size roll on stars and FT it is very common that i will just donk around playing ZOOM 5/10 or 2/5 this goes for, Omaha 6max, SNG's and mainly MTT's when i have a Sunday free or they have a series on, i realise i am not making much money (if at all) in these games but i play it because i enjoy playing on stars but most importantly and this is by far the most important, i have a decent size roll on the site which i use for heads up play. i can 100% say i would not be playing these games at all if i didn’t have money on stars, in fact i would go out my way to not deposit just to play ZOOM or at MTT which im breakeven at best, as i have access to these games easily as i already have funds there and im thankful to stars for allowing such a fair heads up lobby i am more than happy to contribute to their overall economy, this also goes for live events which i have registered on site and SAT's to live events, this would not be possible for me if i wasn’t able to play heads poker on stars like i currently am playing.

If say KOTH came in i would have to most likely withdraw and won’t be able to be part of poker stars.

I think it’s important to realise that not all bum hunters are just only sat there waiting for Jesus games, we are also donking around unknown all over the place, FACT!
HAHAHAHAHAHA

U can't be srs bro
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:49 PM   #167
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Nick,

Why don't you fly kanu and kaby out to your office sit down with them and come up with a solution would only take one day. they are both from the UK have been around for ages and if you read all their post on the issues they dont want the solution that would better for them (KOTH) as they are in the top tier of high stakes cash players in the world.


Really appreciate your efforts with the hu lobby problem, but these two option that you are provided are not good.

- Jakedamus85

Last edited by jakedamus; 08-26-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:57 PM   #168
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedamus View Post
Nick,

Why don't you fly kanu and kaby out to your office sit down with them and come up with a solution would only take one day. they are both from the UK have been around for ages and if you read all their post on the issues they dont want the solution that would better for them (KOTH) as they in the top tier of high stakes cash players in the world.


Really appreciate your efforts with the hu lobby problem, but these two option that you are provided are not good.

- Jakedamus85

this


and I would ask to these guys beging for HU zoom, pls stop, obv you never played hu and don't know why is heads up heads up
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:27 PM   #169
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I like option 2 over option 1. Really depends on how many seats are given for each stake.

There has been some great discussion in this thread from kaby, kanu and sauce.

I do think the point about fish having a worst experience is a bit misleading. Sure, they likely lose faster but I don't think they notice any difference in their playing experience if they lose at -30bb/100 instead of -20bb/.


Thanks for making this thread Nick.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:47 PM   #170
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedamus View Post
Nick,

Why don't you fly kanu and kaby out to your office sit down with them and come up with a solution would only take one day. they are both from the UK have been around for ages and if you read all their post on the issues they dont want the solution that would better for them (KOTH) as they are in the top tier of high stakes cash players in the world.


Really appreciate your efforts with the hu lobby problem, but these two option that you are provided are not good.

- Jakedamus85
This is actually a good idea. I know them both and they both want the best for the games; not them selves (to some extent, of course). It would be an easy and cheap meeting to set up and they both could contribute a ton to this issue.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:00 PM   #171
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

It's really difficult to believe that stars has any interest in solving "bumhunting" at hu when they show such a total disregard to scripting and all the other problems at 6m/fr. Just seems really strange to concentrate on an area of poker that affects a relatively small proportion of the poker playing population.

But agree with capping tables none the less.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:03 PM   #172
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedamus View Post
Nick,

Why don't you fly kanu and kaby out to your office sit down with them and come up with a solution would only take one day. they are both from the UK have been around for ages and if you read all their post on the issues they dont want the solution that would better for them (KOTH) as they are in the top tier of high stakes cash players in the world.


Really appreciate your efforts with the hu lobby problem, but these two option that you are provided are not good.

- Jakedamus85
can this please happen? I vote for this over any other lobby change.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:04 PM   #173
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedamus View Post
Nick,

Why don't you fly kanu and kaby out to your office sit down with them and come up with a solution would only take one day. they are both from the UK have been around for ages and if you read all their post on the issues they dont want the solution that would better for them (KOTH) as they are in the top tier of high stakes cash players in the world.


Really appreciate your efforts with the hu lobby problem, but these two option that you are provided are not good.

- Jakedamus85
winner
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:07 PM   #174
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

could add partygirluk to that list too.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:04 AM   #175
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedamus View Post
Nick,

Why don't you fly kanu and kaby out to your office sit down with them and come up with a solution would only take one day. they are both from the UK have been around for ages and if you read all their post on the issues they dont want the solution that would better for them (KOTH) as they are in the top tier of high stakes cash players in the world.


Really appreciate your efforts with the hu lobby problem, but these two option that you are provided are not good.

- Jakedamus85
+1
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