Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Heads Up NL Discussion of heads up NL Texas Hold'em cash games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-19-2014, 03:37 AM   #1176
deathorglory0
Pooh-Bah
 
deathorglory0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,175
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerfumo View Post
Right now, if you want to play someone in 5/10, you have to go to the 10/20 tables and see who could play you in 5/10. Browsing through the 80 tables of 5/10 and only seeing unknowns is so frustrating.

+1 to cap number of players sitting at 5/10.
then it goes to $3/6... $2/4... why stop?

this was my main concern, especially considering how much higher in terms of bb/100 mid and low stakes is raked.
deathorglory0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2014, 01:35 PM   #1177
.Alex.
Pooh-Bah
 
.Alex.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Playa del Carmen
Posts: 5,182
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbracco View Post
gl finding action at 5-10 if it's anything like playing regs at 2-4 and 3-6 you have to scan 120 tables to play people who currently have no added incentive to play you. 80% will never play a hand vs you under any circumstances. Many are away from the keyboard because there is no reason not to just leave tables up. Some will play 2 hands (or 1 and grim) and leave after they search and see you at more than 1 table. In the event you sit 1 of the 10-12 people willing to play at 2/4, the odds of them having other action, not feeling like playing you on that day (theyd rather just play xbox, or watch the game and bumhunt and they can keep their table either way), or being afk are still high.

Basically finding someone to play poker with you is a major hassle and it shouldnt be this way. Nobody should have to burn 30+ minutes (or 10+ for that matter) looking for a match. This is probably a massive turn off for the regs of other games who spontaneously decide to play HU (and are essentially fish), it's also a massive turn off for any HU reg who wants to get better and climb the ladder.

Rambling but you get the point, the experience needs improvement and it seems to be working higher. How long ago were tables capped? Shouldnt "the ladder be established" and nobody should be playing anyone by now? It doesnt seem that way...
Why aren't you playing 2/5 ZOOM HU right now? Based on the hordes of people complaining about not being able to find a game, those tables should be 25+ players deep 24/7.
.Alex. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2014, 09:26 PM   #1178
iPlayPLOhigh
banned
 
iPlayPLOhigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Right near the beach BOOOOY
Posts: 4,533
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Alex. View Post
Why aren't you playing 2/5 ZOOM HU right now? Based on the hordes of people complaining about not being able to find a game, those tables should be 25+ players deep 24/7.
Because Zoom is stupid?

I mean, I'm sure everyone doesn't feel that way, but when I play HU I play to tilt the guy into spewing off loads of buy ins. Kind of hard to do that playing Zoom..

Zoom also takes away most of the meta game stuff that is involved in HU and that is my favorite part about playing HU. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Last edited by iPlayPLOhigh; 02-19-2014 at 09:32 PM.
iPlayPLOhigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2014, 10:48 PM   #1179
rbracco
Pooh-Bah
 
rbracco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bitch please...livin my life
Posts: 4,618
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Alex. View Post
Why aren't you playing 2/5 ZOOM HU right now? Based on the hordes of people complaining about not being able to find a game, those tables should be 25+ players deep 24/7.
I do play it some, but yeah the previous poster is right, it sucks. I lose focus really easily and definitely dont play well when I have guys in the pool who are opening to 2x, 2.25x, 2.5x, 3x and it keeps jumping around. It's just not the same dynamic as a regular heads up match which I prefer.
rbracco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 01:15 AM   #1180
numbeo
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 74
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbracco View Post
I do play it some, but yeah the previous poster is right, it sucks. I lose focus really easily and definitely dont play well when I have guys in the pool who are opening to 2x, 2.25x, 2.5x, 3x and it keeps jumping around. It's just not the same dynamic as a regular heads up match which I prefer.

why dont you play 2/5 zoom hu and then ask if any of the winning/breakeven reg there wants to play heads up on a regular table vs you?
if not having meta game is your only concern
numbeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 02:03 AM   #1181
iPlayPLOhigh
banned
 
iPlayPLOhigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Right near the beach BOOOOY
Posts: 4,533
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by numbeo View Post
why dont you play 2/5 zoom hu and then ask if any of the winning/breakeven reg there wants to play heads up on a regular table vs you?
if not having meta game is your only concern
Why won't these same players play anyone that is half decent who sits them on a regular table? The answer is the majority want to bum hunt and the minority want to play poker.

Imo the solution to the HU problem and cash problem in general is a general lobby where you pick your stake and game types and then are randomly seated with a player/table. If you deny to play more than X amount of times you get a penalty for X amount of time and can't sit any tables.

That solution eliminates scripts, hardcore bum hunting, and players being forced to Zoom. Stars has the lobby for this already programmed and use it for play money tables. Party Poker NJ uses this same type of lobby as well.
iPlayPLOhigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 02:40 AM   #1182
numbeo
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 74
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPlayPLOhigh View Post
Why won't these same players play anyone that is half decent who sits them on a regular table? The answer is the majority want to bum hunt and the minority want to play poker.
.
that is not true, very often when 500 zoom hu do run ,there are no fish(bad enough for a true bumhunters to want to play) and mostly breakeven/winning regs.

If you think about it, the best player on 2/4 and 3/6 would be so eager to wait there since it doesnt run that often,he would always get 1 worse winning reg than him to play hu with for at least 1-2 hours until it either fills or it doesnt?

This shows that the top 2/4-3/6 players are too much of a wuss to sit there daily OR its obvious that the top 5-10 ranked players of 400/600 nl/plo in the world does not really want to battle slightly better player than themself to moved up the rank.
numbeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 05:41 AM   #1183
Barewire
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Barewire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,723
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

The problem with Zoom is that when it comes down to it, the only incentive to join is among regs who already wanted to play vs each other at a regular table. If they join zoom instead, they may have a fish join them. And sometimes those guys won't even want to play on zoom tables rather than regular tables because they don't want the hassle of their HUD not working or perhaps they dislike when someone enters 1 time while they're in 4 times, and they have a table inactive every now and then, which gets them fewer hands per hour.

I've played a lot of zoom at 1/2 (8k hands), 2/5 (23k hands) and 5/10 (10k hands). Sometimes it runs with no fish, often times not. Lower than 5/10 the game basically won't run if I enter 4 times, which sucks, because the nature of the game gives incentive for higher stakes regs to grind lower and get extra volume. It sounded nice in theory to me, but now if I see 2/5 running I try to sneak in 2 entries to see if that won't kill the game. It's a **** situation and I'm not trying to brag, I'm just explaining why all the guys who are "dying for action" can't "just join 2/5 zoom". The game will break if the weak regs in the pool feel that too many strong regs joined, and no strong reg is going to sit idle while a bunch of weak regs battle it out in a game with open seating. With no mark who specifically loves to play zoom, the higher stakes zoom games are not going to work. And honestly, why the hell would someone prefer zoom over regular tables? It's slow as hell, confusing to most people and you can't even rail the games or chat effectively.

1/2 traffic has been lower lately as well it seems so I'm not optimistic about this format. On the flip side, I can't remember the last time I opened the stars lobby and didn't see 10/20+ going. Let's just get the damn add a table button so there's a hard cap on inactive tables instead of total tables.
Barewire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 05:49 AM   #1184
Barewire
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Barewire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,723
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Oh I should mention though, because I think zoom is a smart idea, that I can't for the life of me understand why the game breaks. Every time zoom somehow hits a certain threshold of entries, it blows up and fish start joining. Has nobody noticed this? The incentive is there to play but perhaps it's too low for some and others just don't realize it. I think a cap on the number of entries at high stakes might be useful simply because some people don't want to or can't afford to 4 table at 5/10 to get a shot at 1 fish. Before scrapping zoom I'd definitely try to lower the entry cap to 2 tables.
Barewire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 06:28 AM   #1185
Apoccd10I
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cold place in northern europe.
Posts: 1,333
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

ipoker system is currently the best of all. allowing for open sitting multiple stakes and 4 tables total creates a really good balance between stakes.

top regs take 4 5/10, next skill level take 4 3/6 etc. if they reduced tables in lobby of each stake by 15-25% i think it would be perfect and stars should follow in their footsteps.
Apoccd10I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 06:49 AM   #1186
Syous
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Syous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ploville
Posts: 6,907
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

that's an odd statement, I've been seeing way more HU action at 5/10+ on stars than on ipoker and it's not even close
Syous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 06:50 AM   #1187
deathorglory0
Pooh-Bah
 
deathorglory0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,175
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoccd10I View Post
ipoker system is currently the best of all. allowing for open sitting multiple stakes and 4 tables total creates a really good balance between stakes.

top regs take 4 5/10, next skill level take 4 3/6 etc. if they reduced tables in lobby of each stake by 15-25% i think it would be perfect and stars should follow in their footsteps.
i agree. as you hinted at you only need to battle regs at your specific stake. unlike what would end end up happening on stars with a KOTH - where high stakes players sit from (something like) 2/4 to 25/50.
deathorglory0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 07:05 AM   #1188
Mejis
veteran
 
Mejis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: yo goober where's the meat?
Posts: 2,047
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
On the flip side, I can't remember the last time I opened the stars lobby and didn't see 10/20+ going. Let's just get the damn add a table button so there's a hard cap on inactive tables instead of total tables.
+1

Don't understand why stars hasn't solved this by now, just make a '+1 table' or something that autocloses when one player leaves it (just like it auto closes your 2nd open seating table these days), doesn't sound like that should be too hard to implement.
Mejis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 07:30 AM   #1189
Apoccd10I
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cold place in northern europe.
Posts: 1,333
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syous View Post
that's an odd statement, I've been seeing way more HU action at 5/10+ on stars than on ipoker and it's not even close
I fotmulated my post badly.. it is my opinion, not a statement of facts. Suppose their system was implemented by stars across all stakes, i think it would better the action even more than what we've seen with the recent changes (10/20+), dont you?
Apoccd10I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 10:29 AM   #1190
Syous
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Syous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ploville
Posts: 6,907
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

absolutely not
Syous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 10:52 AM   #1191
rbracco
Pooh-Bah
 
rbracco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bitch please...livin my life
Posts: 4,618
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syous View Post
absolutely not
+1
rbracco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 11:00 AM   #1192
deathorglory0
Pooh-Bah
 
deathorglory0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,175
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

why not?
deathorglory0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 11:03 AM   #1193
BEAR JEW
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle,WA/Las Vegas,NV
Posts: 2,515
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathorglory0 View Post
i agree. as you hinted at you only need to battle regs at your specific stake. unlike what would end end up happening on stars with a KOTH - where high stakes players sit from (something like) 2/4 to 25/50.
a player that can get a table at 25-50 regularly will not be sitting at 2-4... thats just the way it is
BEAR JEW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 11:46 AM   #1194
deathorglory0
Pooh-Bah
 
deathorglory0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,175
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR JEW View Post
a player that can get a table at 25-50 regularly will not be sitting at 2-4... thats just the way it is
not true.

i've just checked the lobby now and the first 2 players at 5k that weren't hidden... one is sat 400+ up and the other 600+.

if KOTH went all the way down players are even more likely to do this imo. hence a table cap being a good idea.
deathorglory0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 12:49 PM   #1195
BEAR JEW
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle,WA/Las Vegas,NV
Posts: 2,515
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

wouldnt this be bad for the players at lower stakes that have to battle it out vs a 25-50 player?

but yes i for KOTH
BEAR JEW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 12:56 PM   #1196
Apoccd10I
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cold place in northern europe.
Posts: 1,333
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR JEW View Post
wouldnt this be bad for the players at lower stakes that have to battle it out vs a 25-50 player?

but yes i for KOTH
with a table cap they wouldnt have incentive to do this, they would take tables higher, for ex. 2 at 25/50 and 2 at 10/20 with a table cap of 4.
Apoccd10I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 12:59 PM   #1197
Mejis
veteran
 
Mejis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: yo goober where's the meat?
Posts: 2,047
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR JEW View Post
wouldnt this be bad for the players at lower stakes that have to battle it out vs a 25-50 player?

but yes i for KOTH
No need to limit the stakes you're allowed to sit, a KOTH would naturally balance this out since 25/50 players are not going to battle 2/4 regs to get a table. They are sitting because its uncapped and there is no cost to opening those tables right now.
Mejis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 01:14 PM   #1198
kaby
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: captain of team fold
Posts: 6,218
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathorglory0 View Post
not true.

i've just checked the lobby now and the first 2 players at 5k that weren't hidden... one is sat 400+ up and the other 600+.

if KOTH went all the way down players are even more likely to do this imo. hence a table cap being a good idea.
Facepalm.

Those regs take the tables because it isn't KotH and it's easy for them to do so.

If it was KotH, they wouldn't take the tables because they wouldn't bother defending them and people will know this.

Example: the party 5/10 tables are very lucrative to have. I'm fairly certain I could take them if I wanted to, I just don't bother because I have higher action most of the time. If they weren't KotH or a softer KotH I'd take those tables always/more often. This doesn't only apply to me, the guys that have the tables most of the time don't really battle 25/50 (one of them started to I guess)
kaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 01:26 PM   #1199
rbracco
Pooh-Bah
 
rbracco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bitch please...livin my life
Posts: 4,618
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaby View Post
Facepalm.

Those regs take the tables because it isn't KotH and it's easy for them to do so.

If it was KotH, they wouldn't take the tables because they wouldn't bother defending them and people will know this.

Example: the party 5/10 tables are very lucrative to have. I'm fairly certain I could take them if I wanted to, I just don't bother because I have higher action most of the time. If they weren't KotH or a softer KotH I'd take those tables always/more often. This doesn't only apply to me, the guys that have the tables most of the time don't really battle 25/50 (one of them started to I guess)
Yeah this is a great explanation, I've also explained multiple times in this thread why having looser KotH lower is better than having a table cap.
rbracco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2014, 04:03 PM   #1200
deathorglory0
Pooh-Bah
 
deathorglory0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,175
Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaby View Post
Facepalm.

Those regs take the tables because it isn't KotH and it's easy for them to do so.

If it was KotH, they wouldn't take the tables because they wouldn't bother defending them and people will know this.
facepalm? really?

it's hypothetical obviously, but i'd say lower stakes players are more likely to just flat out avoid higher stakes regs when battling for a table in KOTH at lower stakes (i know that would be my inclination anyway).

with action so dry that KOTH is needed, i think plenty HS regs will find the time to defend tables at stakes they currently sit at anyway (which have a higher "value" to hold under KOTH).

it is an issue for low/mid stakes grinders like myself. the fact rbracco is arguing that there should be no table cap is more evidence to support my view.
deathorglory0 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online