Fold pre

I wouldn't check raise because A7 works better as a call. I have 24 gutshot combos already with 45o and 64o to check raise (vs a 2.5x raise, vs a 3x raise I fold them pre). I only have 33 for sets and K7 and K3 for two pair so if I check raise all of those I only have 14 combos of value hands (I fold K3o pre). If I check raised all my gutshots I have too many bluffs. If I wanted to check raise my top pairs my best top pair is K9o. I would have to check raise that and K8 some of the time to balance out the bluffs. I also don't think I want to check raise K7 because I basically have the board locked down so I might get more value from calling. That is also the case for K3o.

That being said, the reason A7 could be a check raise is it works also as a protection bet but one where if called I think I am forced to check the turn unimproved and likely be in really bad shape vs the BTN's calling range. If I wanted to check raise a pair then I might choose a 3 instead. However, it may be that I am undervaluing how strong A7 is on the flop but the value of protection, I would think, would have to be quite high for A7 to be a better check raise then say K5o even though I don't think K5o would be a check raise. My issue with A7 is he is going to just call all the hands that beat me and fold everything that doesn't. If I say check raise to 15 he needs to continue 50% of the time (but maybe if we C/R more he makes the adjustment to c bet the flop less with his air, so he can continue with a stronger range). He should therefore be calling with all of his middle pairs or better presumably, and so maybe we beat that range with A7 but it leaves us in spots where we do have to check call the turn a lot I would think. If you bet turn and he continues then he only calls with hands better than a 7 I think.

I am starting to think though that even having a check raising range on this board is a difficult proposition but then I could look to check raise turns. I don't have many strong hands in the first place on this board and if I start check raising them my check call range is extremely weak and pretty open to abuse by a player who is going to play future streets aggressively. For this reason it seems to me that choosing in a vacuum whether we check raise here is not taking into account future streets e.g. if I check call is my opponent then going to continue to bet the turn with most of his air and in which case I shouldn't check raise. Further, I have to look at it in the context of my range and if I want a polarised check raising range then I am not sure if A7o is good enough. The problem with raising polar is it seems I would get less value out of my strong hands since my strong hands block his strong hands quite significantly nor do I have any good draws. The benefits of having a check raising range is I get to be aggressive with my gut shots though whereas otherwise I have to check call them to OOP float or take it away on the turn. That being said, gut shots are likely my only bluffs on future streets other than turning a 3 into a bluff but I wouldn't want to bet the 3 on the river if the flop and turn check through because it has showdown value. Therefore, if I check raise some of my gutshots to have some bluffs I never have any bluffs on the river if checked through. If I want to check raise the turn though I can turn a 3 into a bluff.

I am not sure what the best play is but I still think A7 is a check call not a check raise. I think I am getting into way too many problems on future streets if I start check raising this board.

Now anyone feel free to tell me where I am completely wrong or just completely missed something

Maybe that wasn't the best example I can offer.
Lately I've played vs people who literally cbet >80%.
If villains were cbetting even say 60%, I would be less inclined to XR this hand.

5% XR just sounds like you are only check raising something like KJ/AJ top pairs that you flatted pre with, sets, two pair and good draws.
A lot of villains don't bet A-high on this texture. That means their betting range is very polarized.
Now it's possible we get bet/called by QQ JJ TT. Problem is that those hands only have 2 effective outs to improve to best hand. So we may consider check/raising light with Kx ourselves. Imagine what it would do to your winrate.

The reason why I would check/raise A7o here. Even T9o has 27% equity on this board. This equity may improve even further on some good turn cards.
Just folding out 27% equity is a very good result. The hand may play out that we check the turn, villain checks back turn and river and we get to the showdown. This is fine result as well, since we didn't allow villain to bet thinly 2 streets. We may also improve into very good two pair that we can value bet or bluff catch with.

The point I was trying to make, don't be afraid to make loose check/raises. You are VERY EASY to play against if you only check/raise 5%. I get to realize my equity with cbetting bluffs very well.
Now I don't know how the average 50nl villain plays. There certainly could be some aggressive regs there.
Check/raising vs fish is a whole another story, you would rather go thinly for value than to XR bluff.

If you implement a good check/raising strategy, you may find out that villain has to fold his TT on the flop. It's also possible that villains at 50nl already do that because they are scared to put a lot of money into pot.
Check/raising gut-shot is a loose play, but if we get enough folds on the flop, that is enough and we can check/fold turns where we don't improve at all. I would continue betting if I had open-ender or double gut-shot.


Could some mod move this to the questions thread?

I would also advice you to fold 64o 54o type hands preflop vs a 2.5x raise.
Biggest reason is the rake at 50nl. Other reason, they are very tricky to play post-flop. Had villain bet 70% on this board, you would have no clue how to play against. Should you peel vs big bet with just a weak gut-shot??? Folding would be too tight as well.
If your opponent folds a lot to 3-bets (>70%), then you can 3-bet them preflop and take it down without paying rake.
Those are the type of hands where snowie "defends too much" for your average Joe.

This will also make it easier to play these textures with low cards. Sometimes you 3-bet 64s 54s preflop as well, so this reduces your bluffing combos on this board.

Thanks, im not really sure about ranges yet but maybe I will start attacking people who bet too high frequencies on the flop and turn with some more check raises with hands id otherwise fold or bad draws id have to fold on the turn- just add in maybe a few more combos and see what happens.

no offense fishtankz, but what you are writing is complete gibberish. ColdWater, don't listen to anything he says, there's so much wrong there i don't even know where to begin.

That's only talking vs ppl who cb a ton, and let's say they give up afterwards.
You COULD XR A7 for protection, but as said, flatting is just fine as well.

not only is that wrong, you write the wall of text about facing that very specific kind of player, which is pretty much non-existant these days. And it still doesn't make any sense, even in that super narrow context.

Could you maybe at least point me in the right direction based on my posts? I don't think I am check raising enough but I think that is because I am not check raising enough bluffs to balance out my value hands. 5% check raise does seem low to me.

I have been looking at spots to check raise bluff so instead of folding a gutshot on the turn I might now check raise it sometimes instead to balance out the times I check raise turned two pair or check called with a hand that has a lock on the flop.

Does anyone know any good sites for low stakes HUNL with less rake than pokerstars (or more rake but higher rakeback to make it effectively less)? From what I can see, the stars rakecap at 75 cents at 50NL is less than other sites which are 1 dollar.

Try ipoker, they offer the lowest possible stakes HU and you can find good rakeback deals.
HU is pretty much dead everywhere tho

Don't waste your time.

I like playing headsup though and I don't need the money. I just don't want to lose money but I am more of a hobbyist. I want to make money when playing though. Most hobbies cost people money. So far I am doing ok and still steady at 5bb/100 including rake back - if I was running at EV I would be 6.77bb/100. This is fine for me. I have the money to play 500NL if I wanted to with proper BRM, I am just unlikely to be a winning player at that stake and so I don't play it.

I might get more into 6 max or learn PLO but right now, and I am not sitting, I see 40 people playing HUNL zoom 50NL, 20 people playing 100nl, 5 at 200NL, 6 at 500NL and 10 at 1000NL. Seems like there are people giving action, especially at 50NL and 100NL where there are more fish than regs (I might be counting some of the regs as fish if they are doing really fishy things like limping on the BTN or adjusting their bet sizing depending on the strength of their hand). If HUNL is a waste of time, you might be playing too high stakes for there to be enough fish.

Out of the 40 people in 50NL now I have 10 marked as fish but that doesn't include the people who I haven't played before or only have a few hands on so it's likely a bit more and this the worst I have seen it so far. Sometimes I have over half to 2/3 of the players marked as fish from previous games. Note: I think for 50NL I am counting entries rather than players. In 100NL right now I have marked 6 fish entries and 9 non-fish entries. For the non-fish entries, 3 of them are unknown so not sure, 4 are tough regs for the stake (but perhaps not tough if you play 500NL) and 2 is a weak tight reg. If you went into 100NL right now you would expect then to have 8 players entries with an edge over (6 fish + 2 weak tight reg entries), 3 unknowns and then for the tough regs you just have to be good enough to be break even vs them or slight loss and it's a very profitable game.

More people should come play HUNL

As do I, but the sites don't. In the very near future there won't be any HU... You came here for advice, that's the best you will get, don't waste your time.

I doubt that will happen. If all sites remove HUNL, someone like PartyPoker or 888 will say hmm that's a way to get some more customers, let's add in HUNL (or they simply don't remove it ever). HUSNGs will still be a thing too and maybe headsup tournaments.

If poker is ever made legal in the US again too the fish will come and that should increase the market for HUNL so I don't think low stakes HUNL will just die.

There I was reading Fishtankz posts like they were the word, and then I read yours and I'm like "****". He had at least a couple good points, right?

I don't understand how c/r'ing Kx is extra profitable in this situation.

He's a fun player. He can enjoy HUNL while it's still around and then jump to ring/tourneys/plo once it's gone. He doesn't have the same considerations as a pro.

Why do you think hunl will be completely gone and how long away from that is it?

True

The fun players lose their money too fast. That leads to less rake for the site and less fun for the fun player. At this point it doesn't seem like any sites care to fix HU( like changing the lobbies, etc, etc) and Stars has set a very bad precedent as the industry leader.

What do you mean by changing the lobbies and stars setting a bad precedent for heads up?

Stars doesn't offer HU anymore except for Zoom.

888 removed HU like 4 years ago bro

Would like to add that HUsngs(hypers mainly) are at the moment getting flooded with competent bots enough to destroy 1k regs, its a matter of time stars decide to remove that format because of the used to be pretty healthy reg-vs-reg enviroment of "forbidden word" are going down the drain and all is left are the bot-users. They will have no reason defending vs one another for lobbies if they all use the same software so it will be pure bumhunt and thus not a very profitable thing to keep for stars.

When that format is also gone, there will be no way to play HUNL except turbos/Regular speed until the regs cant hold their own there either.

ALL MTT REGS, prepare your anus for the addition of another 5% of total playerpool of very competent regs from hypers/6max hypers. You guys also had your fun!

I just noticed yesterday that stars dropped all heads up play chip games below 50/100.

Alright guys if HUNL is dead it's time to learn Razz!

Playing HUNL probably improves your game in ring games anyway, it gives you a great basis and I think it can only get easier with more defined ranges - it's obviously a learning curve plus you need to learn multiway and other dynamics but I still think it's a good base to start from.