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Heads Up NL Discussion of heads up NL Texas Hold'em cash games

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Old 03-04-2011, 09:14 PM   #201
ShipItMehr
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrpb View Post
I'm non-US so I've every deposit method open to me
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:03 PM   #202
Geronimo299
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Just working out how much rake actually punishes you at 1c/2c on iPoker network. This is a session on iPoker heads up tables of 1c/2c, 118 hands. I lost 98c but the other guy lost like $3, which seems absolutely ridiculous.

Code:
Hand #		Date			Limit		Hand	Seat	Won	Pot	Rake	
2666907930	2011/03/06 19:32	$0.02 NL	Q8o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666907719	2011/03/06 19:32	$0.02 NL	A7s	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666907415	2011/03/06 19:32	$0.02 NL	86s	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666907065	2011/03/06 19:32	$0.02 NL	KQs	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666906130	2011/03/06 19:31	$0.02 NL	43s	8	-$1.46	$2.92	$0.19
2666905711	2011/03/06 19:31	$0.02 NL	54o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666905452	2011/03/06 19:30	$0.02 NL	Q5o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666905166	2011/03/06 19:30	$0.02 NL	53o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666904670	2011/03/06 19:30	$0.02 NL	72o	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666903936	2011/03/06 19:29	$0.02 NL	A5s	8	-$0.45	$0.90	$0.06
2666902563	2011/03/06 19:29	$0.02 NL	J8o	8	$1.17	$2.70	$0.18
2666902076	2011/03/06 19:28	$0.02 NL	83s	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666901483	2011/03/06 19:28	$0.02 NL	Q2o	8	$0.13	$0.30	$0.02
2666901241	2011/03/06 19:28	$0.02 NL	42o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666900540	2011/03/06 19:27	$0.02 NL	54s	8	-$0.26	$0.52	$0.03
2666899997	2011/03/06 19:27	$0.02 NL	A6o	8	$0.80	$1.84	$0.12
2666899779	2011/03/06 19:27	$0.02 NL	A6o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666899394	2011/03/06 19:26	$0.02 NL	94o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666898721	2011/03/06 19:26	$0.02 NL	J9o	8	$0.39	$0.90	$0.06
2666898555	2011/03/06 19:26	$0.02 NL	66	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666898175	2011/03/06 19:26	$0.02 NL	Q7o	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666897633	2011/03/06 19:25	$0.02 NL	43s	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666897134	2011/03/06 19:25	$0.02 NL	AJs	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666896836	2011/03/06 19:25	$0.02 NL	ATo	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666896627	2011/03/06 19:24	$0.02 NL	J4s	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666896483	2011/03/06 19:24	$0.02 NL	82o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666896251	2011/03/06 19:24	$0.02 NL	TT	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666896063	2011/03/06 19:24	$0.02 NL	QTo	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666895737	2011/03/06 19:24	$0.02 NL	J8o	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666895121	2011/03/06 19:23	$0.02 NL	84s	8	$0.33	$0.74	$0.04
2666894828	2011/03/06 19:23	$0.02 NL	T9o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666894549	2011/03/06 19:23	$0.02 NL	43o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666894338	2011/03/06 19:23	$0.02 NL	42o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666894122	2011/03/06 19:23	$0.02 NL	Q6o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666893836	2011/03/06 19:23	$0.02 NL	92o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666893653	2011/03/06 19:22	$0.02 NL	72o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666893226	2011/03/06 19:22	$0.02 NL	Q4o	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666893009	2011/03/06 19:22	$0.02 NL	83o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666892757	2011/03/06 19:22	$0.02 NL	T7s	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666892432	2011/03/06 19:22	$0.02 NL	53o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666892073	2011/03/06 19:21	$0.02 NL	K7o	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666891274	2011/03/06 19:21	$0.02 NL	K8s	8	$0.98	$2.24	$0.14
2666891015	2011/03/06 19:21	$0.02 NL	K5o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666890062	2011/03/06 19:20	$0.02 NL	T7s	8	-$0.08	$0.16	$0.01
2666889311	2011/03/06 19:19	$0.02 NL	AA	8	$0.91	$2.10	$0.14
2666888974	2011/03/06 19:19	$0.02 NL	J7o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666888788	2011/03/06 19:19	$0.02 NL	T9o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666888363	2011/03/06 19:19	$0.02 NL	53s	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666888089	2011/03/06 19:19	$0.02 NL	52o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666887399	2011/03/06 19:18	$0.02 NL	KQs	8	$0.16	$0.36	$0.02
2666887168	2011/03/06 19:18	$0.02 NL	75o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666886241	2011/03/06 19:17	$0.02 NL	A2o	8	$1.52	$3.50	$0.23
2666885977	2011/03/06 19:17	$0.02 NL	88	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666885686	2011/03/06 19:17	$0.02 NL	K5o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666884796	2011/03/06 19:16	$0.02 NL	Q4s	8	$0.26	$0.60	$0.04
2666884622	2011/03/06 19:16	$0.02 NL	K2s	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666883852	2011/03/06 19:16	$0.02 NL	97o	8	$0.55	$1.26	$0.08
2666883494	2011/03/06 19:15	$0.02 NL	Q5o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666882793	2011/03/06 19:15	$0.02 NL	75o	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666882518	2011/03/06 19:15	$0.02 NL	53o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666882253	2011/03/06 19:15	$0.02 NL	J9o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666881732	2011/03/06 19:14	$0.02 NL	A3o	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666881279	2011/03/06 19:14	$0.02 NL	T2o	8	-$0.04	$0.08	$0.00
2666881068	2011/03/06 19:14	$0.02 NL	A6o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666880796	2011/03/06 19:14	$0.02 NL	A5s	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666880610	2011/03/06 19:13	$0.02 NL	T5o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666880379	2011/03/06 19:13	$0.02 NL	33	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666880199	2011/03/06 19:13	$0.02 NL	94o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666879772	2011/03/06 19:13	$0.02 NL	85o	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666879558	2011/03/06 19:13	$0.02 NL	96o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666878648	2011/03/06 19:12	$0.02 NL	64s	8	-$4.86	$9.72	$0.64
2666878339	2011/03/06 19:12	$0.02 NL	Q5o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666877931	2011/03/06 19:12	$0.02 NL	75s	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666877120	2011/03/06 19:11	$0.02 NL	96s	8	$0.33	$0.74	$0.04
2666876867	2011/03/06 19:11	$0.02 NL	K3o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666876088	2011/03/06 19:10	$0.02 NL	J4s	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666875914	2011/03/06 19:10	$0.02 NL	QQ	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666875717	2011/03/06 19:10	$0.02 NL	Q3s	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666875384	2011/03/06 19:10	$0.02 NL	A4o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666874414	2011/03/06 19:09	$0.02 NL	87s	8	-$0.28	$0.56	$0.03
2666873866	2011/03/06 19:09	$0.02 NL	T4o	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666873682	2011/03/06 19:09	$0.02 NL	A8o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666873013	2011/03/06 19:08	$0.02 NL	53s	8	$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666872599	2011/03/06 19:08	$0.02 NL	K7o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666872336	2011/03/06 19:08	$0.02 NL	T7o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666871975	2011/03/06 19:07	$0.02 NL	T5o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666871593	2011/03/06 19:07	$0.02 NL	92o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666871410	2011/03/06 19:07	$0.02 NL	62o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666871176	2011/03/06 19:07	$0.02 NL	63s	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666870495	2011/03/06 19:06	$0.02 NL	KTo	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666870063	2011/03/06 19:06	$0.02 NL	54s	8	-$0.18	$0.36	$0.02
2666869879	2011/03/06 19:06	$0.02 NL	94o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666869638	2011/03/06 19:06	$0.02 NL	KJo	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666868803	2011/03/06 19:05	$0.02 NL	QQ	8	$0.99	$2.28	$0.15
2666868511	2011/03/06 19:05	$0.02 NL	74o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666868345	2011/03/06 19:05	$0.02 NL	KJo	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666867512	2011/03/06 19:04	$0.02 NL	75o	8	$0.76	$1.74	$0.11
2666867337	2011/03/06 19:04	$0.02 NL	65o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666866600	2011/03/06 19:03	$0.02 NL	QJo	8	$0.98	$2.24	$0.14
2666866278	2011/03/06 19:03	$0.02 NL	75s	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666865625	2011/03/06 19:03	$0.02 NL	A8o	8	-$2.24	$4.48	$0.29
2666865396	2011/03/06 19:03	$0.02 NL	T5o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666865154	2011/03/06 19:02	$0.02 NL	87o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666864174	2011/03/06 19:02	$0.02 NL	K9o	8	-$0.33	$10.04	$0.66
2666863873	2011/03/06 19:01	$0.02 NL	Q7o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666863319	2011/03/06 19:01	$0.02 NL	75o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666863074	2011/03/06 19:01	$0.02 NL	T6o	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666862161	2011/03/06 19:00	$0.02 NL	AJo	8	-$0.91	$1.82	$0.12
2666861407	2011/03/06 19:00	$0.02 NL	92o	8	-$0.15	$0.30	$0.02
2666860989	2011/03/06 18:59	$0.02 NL	T3o	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666860386	2011/03/06 18:59	$0.02 NL	J7s	8	-$0.37	$0.74	$0.04
2666860228	2011/03/06 18:59	$0.02 NL	A3o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666859717	2011/03/06 18:58	$0.02 NL	42o	8	-$0.04	$0.08	$0.00
2666859350	2011/03/06 18:58	$0.02 NL	Q4o	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
2666858974	2011/03/06 18:58	$0.02 NL	J6s	8	$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666858549	2011/03/06 18:58	$0.02 NL	T4s	8	-$0.02	$0.04	$0.00
2666858222	2011/03/06 18:57	$0.02 NL	J4o	8	-$0.06	$0.12	$0.00
2666857917	2011/03/06 18:57	$0.02 NL	AQo	8	$0.01	$0.02	$0.00
So the total rake was like $3.62, over 120 hands. 181 big blinds! Am I seeing something wrong or is that right?
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:42 PM   #203
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to hu cash and I have a question about low-mid sc's.
I love to 3-bet them and vs certain opponents I do so close to 100% frequency. But the problem is what do you do if you are in position and face 3-bet with let's say 89s 9Ts J9s 78s or sth like that?
And do you usually fold to 4-bet after 3-betting this kind of hands? (depending on the villain ofc)
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:07 PM   #204
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

I'm a HUSNG player, been so for 3 months, looking to add some HUNL into my schedule, play a few hundred hands a day.

Wondering, whats the best site to play 2nl on (ipoker), and how do you get the awesome rakeback I've heard of from there.

Also, is my HUSNG.com subscription going to be at all useful for HU cash? What sites are recommended for HU videos?
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:19 AM   #205
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Trying to teach someone HU and 50nl is too steep for them - Is it possible to overcome the rake at 10nl and 25nl on AP or Merge or whatever if you've got the initial deposit bonus? Is it essentially 100% RB for the duration of the bonus?
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:09 AM   #206
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Hey,

just wondering if theres any material/videos out there for that transition? been a winning playing at the mid stakes husng but just looking to get into some cash games. anybody made a successful move? which one is more profitable?

cheers
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:09 PM   #207
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loldog View Post
Have anyone read Easy Game by balugawhale, and can comment on the HU section written by MatthewRyan

Is it (still?) a good framework for SS NLHU? Is there anything better out there you can recommend?
I too was curious about this. I read the section and it was pretty basic and fundamental stuff. It got me turned on to NLHU and I gave HUSNG's a shot and had some success there, when I'm rolled I was thinking of giving the cash games a go, see which I liked better.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:00 AM   #208
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

What do you guys think is the profitability of 30bb CAP tables compared to normal 100bb games? If you are playing a fishy reg who doesn't make too many mistakes preflop, and is generally reasonable (beats micro 6max/FR games for a small winrate), what do you think would be your winrate against this reg at 200NL CAP compared to the winrate against the same reg playing semi deep (50bb-100bb) at a normal 200NL table?

Also, related question - any recommendations for a site with good videos for playing 30bb CAP HU games?

Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:35 PM   #209
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Ballpark a hand sample over which you start to make adjustments vs 3bets (i.e. generally what size hand sample before 3bet% starts to converge with villain's actual 3bet%)?
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:25 PM   #210
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

hello i think to play HU cash on Cakepoker, does anyone know how much rake they charge at 50NL heads ups and do you think it is profitable to play cash there at that level considering rake or it is better to play SNGHU?I play so far more SNGHU and would like to switch to cash games.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:09 PM   #211
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamaican66 View Post
You can add me to skype, I am always down to discuss hands/review vids/w.e

I have around 20+ other poker players on skype that I talk to on a farily routinely basis.

Pm me for Skype info.
can you send me your skype on personal massage please?
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:04 AM   #212
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

is pr1nnyraiding still good/applicable to learn hu cash?
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:35 PM   #213
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamaican66 View Post
You can add me to skype, I am always down to discuss hands/review vids/w.e

I have around 20+ other poker players on skype that I talk to on a farily routinely basis.

Pm me for Skype info.
mate sorry ,but i cant find the option to write you a personal massage, write me a personal massage and am gonna send you my skype, gonna be interesting to talk about poker...
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:09 PM   #214
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

How low do you let your opponent's stack get before you sit out and make him top up? Is sitting out ok against a shortstack? Sometimes I don't feel like flipping every hand and paying rake for 10BB.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:16 AM   #215
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Hey guys,
ive just been starting out with HU, since its possible at lower stakes in the poker room i play at. Noew there isnt any micro HU and higher HU, so i hope to get some decent answers.
How does the most common HUD look like in HU games?
How precise do stats have to look like?

i play 0.1/0.25

I'd apreciate maybe a PDF or smthng to see what stats you use.

kindest regards Im3rd.

PS. id love to join a studying group for HU!!!
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:06 AM   #216
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Balugawhale still good?
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:36 PM   #217
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Generally how often does a person need to be 3betting before you start 4beting with hands that you're not getting in? Is it generally better to just start calling more 3bets or 4betting. What are the hands you're 4betting light with?
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:06 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olinolin View Post
Generally how often does a person need to be 3betting before you start 4beting with hands that you're not getting in? Is it generally better to just start calling more 3bets or 4betting. What are the hands you're 4betting light with?
I have now been playin only 3 days HUCG, but imo the best advice is to try to stay agressive and play villain dependant and tabledynamics-wise good poker. how much to 3bet/4bet is maybe less a defined number, but more vilain dependant.
If he constantly bumps into ur raises, stay tight and play a hand that u can get to showdown with, to see what kind of hands he 3-,4-bets, so u can give him a range.
Keep in mind, that ppl, can be dealt like 5top hands in a row, dont loose your self in a dickmesuring contest, just couse he is pounding on you.
Fact is, the one who plays more agressively and finds the spots when taking down a pot is easy, wins.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:09 PM   #219
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Im just getting into playing HU cash after playing HUsng for quite some time.
What is a standard range pf open-raise in position? It seems quite a bit tighter than sngs..
What is a standard range for pf calling oop? and what about 3-betting range?
Also what is the standard size for 4-bets?

I obv. know that this is very based villian and dynamic etc., so im looking for standard ranges..
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:41 AM   #220
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Good post!
Just didnt find any good book/article recomendation about HU cash.
Any idea?
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:09 PM   #221
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

i'm an experienced HULHE player, but i'm pretty new to HUNL...
what's the best site for HUNL videos ?
what is the best book for HUNL ?
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:45 PM   #222
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

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Originally Posted by harddimes View Post
i'm an experienced HULHE player, but i'm pretty new to HUNL...
what's the best site for HUNL videos ?
what is the best book for HUNL ?
oh and as far as hunl videos, how about which authors are best ?
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:32 PM   #223
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

Ijust got pokerstove, how do i use it to improve my hu game?
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:18 PM   #224
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

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Originally Posted by SRY 4 UR LOSS View Post
is pr1nnyraiding still good/applicable to learn hu cash?
no ... imho ... dogisheadup is ok better - foxwoodfiend and jk3a is good too, and gman's hugrinder series is ok, that deals w beating regs ... and WOT is still a bad ass. AEjones and Lchewey are entertaining on Leggo ... but ....


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Originally Posted by harddimes View Post
i'm an experienced HULHE player, but i'm pretty new to HUNL...
what's the best site for HUNL videos ?
what is the best book for HUNL ?
CR is the best place for vids imho ... for beginners at least. MLJ and CPAR1 are the dudes to watch and the know all end all imo. I loved CPAR's first vid.

Actually tbh - I just like finding the winning regs and I just watch their sessions on PTR. Be sure when you watch vids that you "grunch" them. Pause them on each street b4 the author makes the play and come up with your own play. If it's different, I investigate why I got it "wrong" or why they played it differently.

But be really careful when watching vids. Fancy play isn't how you beat fish and vids can really screw up your game in HU. just take em w a grain and youre watching them to get "thought processes"... just a word of caution.

I don't know of any books but any recent NL book is good. I've been enjoying Ed's SSNLHE book personally. Baluga's book is great ... again ... Just so you know take it w/ a grain.

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Originally Posted by Ibuprofen View Post
How low do you let your opponent's stack get before you sit out and make him top up? Is sitting out ok against a shortstack? Sometimes I don't feel like flipping every hand and paying rake for 10BB.
I think this is acceptable. If we're playing deep and all of a sudden they have 20-10bb then yah the rake wins the war (at 50nl at least). I don't play <40bb stacks. there's nothing more tilting than fighting for a stupid twenty bucks after the dude has doubled off of you three times lol!

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Originally Posted by olinolin View Post
Generally how often does a person need to be 3betting before you start 4beting with hands that you're not getting in? Is it generally better to just start calling more 3bets or 4betting. What are the hands you're 4betting light with?
It's a tough call but if someone is 3b a lot start min raising - mb even limping if they're out of control. You just don't wanna get in a situation where you're in this big ass pot not knowing where you're at. I would suggest 4b'ing some junk hands just to see what they do. The prob w 4bing hands like con-bwys is that they're committing and you want to play on. If you have hand like 93o and you 4b and he ships - well easy fold right? Where as if you have like KJ then it becomes more of a tough call where you're wawb. My suggestion is if you're not comfortable playing agro players then don't play them... Just stick to the weak passive fish for now until you become better at handling these players.

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Originally Posted by YYY View Post
Im just getting into playing HU cash after playing HUsng for quite some time.
What is a standard range pf open-raise in position? It seems quite a bit tighter than sngs..
What is a standard range for pf calling oop? and what about 3-betting range?
Also what is the standard size for 4-bets?

I obv. know that this is very based villian and dynamic etc., so im looking for standard ranges..
well ip it's 75ish and 30ish (+3b) oop... here are my b-flat guidelines:

or ip (+/- on the borders):



cc'ing oop:



and then oc I'm 3b'ing usually everything in the upper LH corner of this ^^^ that isn't yellow...

now keep in mind that I play fish. And my strat is really just to keep it simple. I adjust these ranges oc to how passive or agro they are - what they're calling me with and how often they cc oop. as you stated it's just a "starting" easy does it guidline... no more - but hope it helps no less...

Quote:
Originally Posted by luifer611 View Post
Ijust got pokerstove, how do i use it to improve my hu game?
the best thing is figuring out what they're raising ranges and cc'ing ranges are pf. A basic vpip bb for example isn't going to help you... I want to see what they're 3b'ing w and what they're calling with... mainly what they're calling with. this helps me in determining what boards to cbet on and not. that's just a mere starting point though. It helps if you're going to do this to break up your pf stats rather than having just a basic vpip and pfr for everything which i find not very helpful.

Last edited by nonsimplesimon; 03-25-2011 at 11:33 PM. Reason: edit: also liked beachjustice's vids on DTB
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:07 AM   #225
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Re: Beginners Thread (New posters please read)

also fyi I sometimes cc oop KJo QJo KQo as well ... just didn't have them marked in the above pic.
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