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Old 09-10-2009, 01:03 PM   #1
francis9
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Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

Since i play mainly HU i have become a losing 6-max player, being to reckless and loose.

My decision process is mainly based on feeling, and it happen that my feelings tell me wrong things when i try to play 6-max.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:15 PM   #2
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

hopefully you don't play 100% based on feeling, but your "feelings" are based on some type of history with the opponent or gameflow dynamic. Playing Heads Up has improved my 6m game a ton. I'm now much better with handreading and bet sizing. however when i play 6m, i always lose b/c i'm way too much of an action junkie so i'm raising all these ****ty hands and 3betting way too wide just for fun.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:46 PM   #3
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

Playing HU has helped my 6max game no end. Just be clear about your preflop ranges...
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:26 PM   #4
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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Playing HU has helped my 6max game no end. Just be clear about your preflop ranges...
i agree with this. when i played 6 max after playing purely HU for about 3 months i was a spastic 3 bet monkey from the button and cutoff, but once you sort out your preflop game i think HU makes postflop 6 max seem sooooo much easier (at the same stakes obv)
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:35 PM   #5
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

6maxers are bad - just do auto CR tp and go with it.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:45 PM   #6
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

I regularly switch between full-ring fixed limit, 6max NL, and HU NL. Formula goes: spend a week playing 6max as it's the one I'm best at, want more action, switch to HU, lose, remember how to win at it, realise I'm not making any FPPs, switch to full-ring fixed limit, spew like a crazy person but make lots of FPPs, get bored, switch back to 6max,... uh, you get the idea.
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:24 PM   #7
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

HU>other forms of poker. If you can beat HU you can beat anything.
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:33 PM   #8
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

ok, its true that HU made me a better player, technically. But it really ****ed up my patience to wait for Hands and spots.

And since i can play max 4 tables of 6-max...
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:53 PM   #9
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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Originally Posted by francis9 View Post
ok, its true that HU made me a better player, technically. But it really ****ed up my patience to wait for Hands and spots.

And since i can play max 4 tables of 6-max...
Seems to me you have no problem. You know you need to work on your patience, so there you go.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:18 PM   #10
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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HU>other forms of poker. If you can beat HU you can beat anything.
dont really agree. hu allows for greater game selection for one thing. also, multi way pots create a different dynamic and often require more creative lines
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:41 PM   #11
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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dont really agree. hu allows for greater game selection for one thing. also, multi way pots create a different dynamic and often require more creative lines
HU will improve faster and beter you handreading skills, your overall strategy and psychological skills.You play more hands geting in harder spots all the time seting up strong psychology dynamic vs specific oponents. Skill diference is magnified in HU. Ranges are wider. Its not strange that the top poker players play HU as their main game insted of Full ring or donkaments. I consider 6max the second best form of poker to study to improve yourself.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:48 PM   #12
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

Recently switched back to 6max cash as I changed site to get the 5 books and partypoker's HUSNG rake is disgusting. My preflop lpay was horrible for about a week, post is better now.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:53 PM   #13
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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Originally Posted by Des_Astar View Post
HU will improve faster and beter you handreading skills, your overall strategy and psychological skills.You play more hands geting in harder spots all the time seting up strong psychology dynamic vs specific oponents. Skill diference is magnified in HU. Ranges are wider. Its not strange that the top poker players play HU as their main game insted of Full ring or donkaments. I consider 6max the second best form of poker to study to improve yourself.
I agree with you. If you are a good heads up player you can easily be a good full ring, 6 max or donkament player. It does require some gear shifting. I find it painful to play full ring after I have been playing HU. HU is the crack of the poker world imo.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:00 PM   #14
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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I agree with you. If you are a good heads up player you can easily be a good full ring, 6 max or donkament player. It does require some gear shifting. I find it painful to play full ring after I have been playing HU. HU PLO is the crack of the poker world imo.
fyp

Say no to crack ldo


I mess around with 6max every once in a while and I'm like, "Lol how can you not VB that river etc."

Last edited by ICMoney; 09-10-2009 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:10 PM   #15
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

just getting into HU , i can already feel the difference in my 6 max game, post flop seems much easier
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:20 PM   #16
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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Originally Posted by ICMoney View Post
fyp

Say no to crack ldo


I mess around with 6max every once in a while and I'm like, "Lol how can you not VB that river etc."
Heads up PLO is meth imo. I stay away from that stuff (both HU PLO and Meth obv)
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:55 PM   #17
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

When I play heads up for a while and switch to 6 max it skews my perception of preflop hand ranges for a little while but it helps my overall handreading skills tremendously.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:17 PM   #18
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

Yeah it screwed up my perception of villain ranges after I got used to villain ranges in HU, as it's subtly different. I can no longer value bet third pair and stuff. Makes me sad.

Overall it made me read hands better, so with better adjustments, it's certainly good for my 6max game.

Short term effects are horrible though because I am playing way too loose.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:26 AM   #19
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

I think learning HU, and being able to beat a particular limit will have positive affects on your game in 6m at the same limit. However, you really need to be aware of your preflop opening ranges in EP and MP. It's ok to 3-bet from the button very light, but don't get into the habit of opening 63s UTG (because you would OTB at HU).

I also think HU has possibly caused me to barrel too much in the 6m games...something that has cost me, and will cost you money if you are being too liberal with it. Just be conscientious of who your opponent(s) is.

Overall playing a lot of HU has done much more good than bad for my 6m game.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:35 AM   #20
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

hu taught me how to bluff off my stack more. probably not that great for 6max.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:39 AM   #21
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

has taught me a good amount about hand reading, i feel its transferred well into 6max. mind you, im a horrible 6max player in the first place, i can play 6max sit and goes well, but not cash.
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:52 AM   #22
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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Originally Posted by Des_Astar View Post
HU will improve faster and beter you handreading skills, your overall strategy and psychological skills.You play more hands geting in harder spots all the time seting up strong psychology dynamic vs specific oponents. Skill diference is magnified in HU. Ranges are wider. Its not strange that the top poker players play HU as their main game insted of Full ring or donkaments. I consider 6max the second best form of poker to study to improve yourself.
I disagree with most of this. Top players like hu b/c of game selection. 25-50 fr is mostly good regs chasing 1-2 fish at the table. Skill difference isn't magnified, it's just at medium or high stakes 6 max/fr most of the table is decent so winrates are actually primarily coming off a small number of bad players despite the fact 90% of regs claim to rape other regs in cash. And I don't really think you get in harder spots as much as people think. Low stakes fr/6 max can be won w/ set mining and being a decent TAG but high stakes becomes a series of overlapping dynamics with the other regs, so one needs to weigh how a play will work vs everyone in the hand.
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:48 AM   #23
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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hu taught me how to bluff off my stack more. probably not that great for 6max.
davesafe taught me how to bluff off my stack more, probably not that graet for 6max.
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:33 PM   #24
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

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6maxers are bad - just do auto CR tp and go with it.
other way around now... by a lot
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:12 PM   #25
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Re: Does HU ruin your 6-max game?

It's very important to pay attention to PF ranges in 6-max. It's also important to remember the truism of NL poker that you can frequently bet very loosely but you can almost never call loosely. This is generally true both pre and post-flop. But, all else being equal, there will be far more spots in 6-max where it is totally incorrect to even bet or raise loosely than in HU.


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Originally Posted by absoludicrous View Post
However, you really need to be aware of your preflop opening ranges in EP and MP. It's ok to 3-bet from the button very light, but don't get into the habit of opening 63s UTG (because you would OTB at HU).
I was just going to deposit on a U.S.-facing site and get into 6-max for the first time basically ever.

The bolded part to me is really interesting because there are clearly situations or tables where opening 63s would be profitable from UTG. The problem, of course, is that if you were doing that your opening range would be so comically wide that everyone at the table would immediately notice and you could expect to start getting three-bet a lot. Even if you were getting three bet just 5% more by one player, the window for 63s being opened UTG being profitable would likely close. In fact, almost all non-premium hands would quickly become -EV when 3-betting increased or blind steal equity decreased beyond a high level.

BUT, what's interesting about six-max is that every move that any one opponent might try to make to exploit your insanely wide range has severe limitations. The one player that should be able to effectively counter you every time is the BB, who can both 3-bet more and call. Will they though?

For example, if MP wanted to exploit our insane opening strategy, he would be putting himself at risk of being counterexploited by other players. Even if we were opening 50% UTG, there is little that MP could really do about it, beyond subtly tweaking his range.

This is probably one example of why 6-max has no equilibrium. Obviously, in this situation, if two or more players were colluding, even on just the PF decision, they could exploit us hard while not exploiting each other. But if they don't collude, MP and cutoff could do very little without opening themselves up to serious problems.

Translated into EV, it means their profitable range would only marginally increase if the players yet to act were known to adjust to wider openers.
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