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2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop 2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop

03-30-2019 , 11:25 AM
1. I think my 4-Bet is too small. Should I be betting 2.5 - 3x here?
2. This is a clear fold on the 5-Bet shove esp. given villains stats?

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $1.06 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
Hero (UTG): $2.03
CO: $1.50 (VPIP: 26.74, PFR: 11.05, 3Bet Preflop: 1.79, Hands: 178)
BTN: $2.00 (VPIP: 17.67, PFR: 15.04, 3Bet Preflop: 8.65, Hands: 274)
SB: $2.06 (VPIP: 22.76, PFR: 17.07, 3Bet Preflop: 1.99, Hands: 601)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to $0.06, fold, BTN raises to $0.18, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN raises to $2.00 and is all-in, Hero ?
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
03-30-2019 , 11:39 AM
Button is pretty wide on his 3bet range. I'd rip it in. If it was CO or SB for instance I would lay it down. 274 is a small sample but enough for me to use as a reference for a situation like this. If you are up against KK or AA it sucks but that's poker.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
03-30-2019 , 02:49 PM
Your 4-bet size is fine.

While we're very likely ahead of buttons 3-bet range, we are behind, or racing VS their 5-bets.

Looks like an easy fold after button 5-bet jams.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
03-30-2019 , 03:14 PM
I think we should 4-bet slightly bigger oop and 4-bet/fold QQ is an atrocity. If we consider folding vs 5-bet we should flat the 3-bet and that's a reasonable play vs a tight player without any dynamic.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
03-30-2019 , 06:41 PM
If you think villain is a nit, then just call the 3-bet. If you're 4-betting, then any size from 20bb to 35bb is fine (I prefer to go for about 25bb), as you should have already decided to snap-call a jam. My general rule is to not 4-bet/fold QQ against anyone that has AK in his stack off range.
As it happens, your small 4-bet sizing makes this a breakeven proposition. The pot odds require 40% equity (calling 1.60 into a final pot of 4.00), and that's how much equity you have vs QQ+/AK. Due to rake taking 5% of the pot, you could actually fold, but I wouldn't do that. Call and run it twice and win one of the flips. Next time, make your 4-bet 25bb so there's no decision to be made.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
03-30-2019 , 07:03 PM
So this is the 2nd line check today that has pointed out my position... which I'm not considering when 3-betting. Clearly this is something I'm now aware of and will fix... so I'm glad I've asked for these reviews. EDIT: It's also the 2nd line check where I under-bet my 3-bet size. So this is something I will work on from here on out.

I think I might need to cut my tables down to no more than 2-3 until I can pay attention to these individuals because I don't believe I could tell you if this guy was a nit or not. Which means I wasn't aware if I should be just calling his 3-bet or 4-betting here. "shame on me". I will admit this isn't always the case so I don't sound like a complete idiot.

Thank you all for your input.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
03-31-2019 , 01:57 AM
Don't 4b/f QQ 100bb effective and anywhere between 20-24BB for your 4b size is good. In these positions you can alternatively call pre and play flops, however, 4b/c is also fine.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
03-31-2019 , 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod
Button is pretty wide on his 3bet range. I'd rip it in. If it was CO or SB for instance I would lay it down. 274 is a small sample but enough for me to use as a reference for a situation like this. If you are up against KK or AA it sucks but that's poker.
That's not really how range construction works.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-01-2019 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornToRun
That's not really how range construction works.
You can construct a range with these numbers. That's part of what they are for. You do it over a larger sample size but you use what you have. If I am wrong please feel free to offer a useful rebuttal to educate anyone reading this that may not know.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-01-2019 , 10:11 AM
To echo what some people have said, if I'm 4-betting with QQ and have 100BBs, I'm just getting it all in pre if he 5-bets. Folding here sucks. If I think the range may be tighter and we're heads up, I'll just flat and play a flop.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-01-2019 , 11:20 AM
flat the 3bet against most
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-01-2019 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod
You can construct a range with these numbers. That's part of what they are for. You do it over a larger sample size but you use what you have. If I am wrong please feel free to offer a useful rebuttal to educate anyone reading this that may not know.
Your 3bet range is largely a function of your opponents rfi and whether you're ip or oop. Saying you'd 4bet vs btn but not co doesn't make much sense.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-01-2019 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornToRun
Your 3bet range is largely a function of your opponents rfi and whether you're ip or oop. Saying you'd 4bet vs btn but not co doesn't make much sense.


CO is only 3 betting less than 2% total. I don’t have Equilab in front of me but I know 3% is QQ+, AK. So regardless of position he isn’t 3betting anything but for value. Best case you’re beat or flipping.

Sample size is small but that’s all the info you have. Doesn’t seem like a profitable move 4betting that guy without more info. It’s a play at your own risk spot.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-01-2019 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod
CO is only 3 betting less than 2% total. I don’t have Equilab in front of me but I know 3% is QQ+, AK. So regardless of position he isn’t 3betting anything but for value. Best case you’re beat or flipping.

Sample size is small but that’s all the info you have. Doesn’t seem like a profitable move 4betting that guy without more info. It’s a play at your own risk spot.
Usually we refer to positions as if a default opponent, if you're talking about the co who folded pre in this hand that's just weird and irrelevant.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-01-2019 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornToRun
Usually we refer to positions as if a default opponent, if you're talking about the co who folded pre in this hand that's just weird and irrelevant.
Not sure what's weird about saying I would 4 bet this guy but not that one as an example but ok. lol
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-02-2019 , 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod
Not sure what's weird about saying I would 4 bet this guy but not that one as an example but ok. lol
Nothing is weird about that, but nobody reads that post of yours and thinks you're talking about the actual CO and SB in the hand and not CO and SB as a default.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-02-2019 , 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornToRun
Nothing is weird about that, but nobody reads that post of yours and thinks you're talking about the actual CO and SB in the hand and not CO and SB as a default.
What's weird is you commenting on several of my comments. This seems to be a theme with you. It is weirding me out. I am looking through my shades at night making sure you aren't outside my house. You're scaring me.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-02-2019 , 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod
What's weird is you commenting on several of my comments. This seems to be a theme with you. It is weirding me out. I am looking through my shades at night making sure you aren't outside my house. You're scaring me.
I'm behind you.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-02-2019 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornToRun
I'm behind you.
I just hope you are wearing clothes.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote
04-02-2019 , 09:25 AM
It's an okay sample size but you should be weighting your decisions much more towards his pfr/vpip than 3-bet because the latter takes much longer to converge. You should also temper that against positions because it's pretty much a given that his 3-bet isn't going to be 8.65% vs. UTG even if that's his true overall 3-bet.

I don't 4-bet these positions with QQ in general, and I definitely wouldn't vs. this guy without some other reads to speak of.
2NL 6 Max QQ Facing 5 Bet Shove Pre-Flop Quote

      
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