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Old 01-14-2018, 09:51 PM   #1
Fishtankz
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70-75% 3x OR strat

Hey.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this OR strategy.
I mainly play 6-max. I table start and sometimes get HU action.
I see 2 kinds of weaker players. Those that limp a lot and don't fold much pre, and then there's the ones who don't limp but open fold a lot.
I also see 2 other tendencies. Some fish call too much in BB but others fold a lot (>60%). Either way we would be making money.

I think tight 3x open raise strategy works well in both regards. We're not putting in too much money with 74o vs weak unknown player. If the weaker player open folds too much pre, then we are in a way sharing that leak. My OR is 70% though and they have like 50%. If I see them fold BB a lot then I'll of course start raising a lot more hands.

Regs are a different story. Most regs call enough in the BB, I'd say majority of them adjust their range according to OR sizing.
I have ran into 2 types of regs. The one's that 3-bet like 14%. I think vs them 3x OR is good. We get to see a lot of flops IP.
The other type is 18% or more 3-bet. Should I switch to lower sizing at this point?
This one reg has 23% 3-bet. If I don't fold to 3-bets exploitately much, would it be good to keep going with 3x strat? It's nice if he 3-bets K5o and we call KTo. Or he 3-bet 73s and we just call Q5s to make better flush (draw).

I'm often playing a lot of tables, so I like 3x in that regards as well. I don't end up autopiloting weak hands and overplaying the weakest gut-shots (53o 43o etc.)
I think in order to make >80% 2x work, I'd really have to put in the focus. I don't even think opening that wide works well in 2018.
Even when you bet 1/3, most regs know what they should be calling.

Another reason why I think 3x would be good, is that I think a lot of regs overcall BB vs this sizing.
Only thing why I don't like it, is when I start to get 3-bet a lot.
It's also nasty when your opponent has 95% OR, and you keep folding that extra 20% which could be free money for him. I think as long as I fight back well enough in the BB, he shouldn't be able to make money with that wide OR strategy. I can also 3-bet very wide if I notice that he FT3B a lot. A lot of 6-max regs may end up overfolding to 3-bets.

Any feedback welcome!
I could do 2.5x for sure, I'd avoid 2x because of rake. Players just don't fold enough in the BB imo.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:33 AM   #2
Tutejszy
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Re: 70-75% 3x OR strat

I only play zoom, where population overfolds bb vs 2,5x (and those who dont are often complete fish, vs whom you dont mind playing 100% ip), so I use 2,5x, but I can see your strat making sense vs competent opponents at the low stakes (oxymoron?) due to rake
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Old 01-16-2018, 08:11 AM   #3
Fishtankz
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Re: 70-75% 3x OR strat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutejszy View Post
I only play zoom, where population overfolds bb vs 2,5x (and those who dont are often complete fish, vs whom you dont mind playing 100% ip), so I use 2,5x, but I can see your strat making sense vs competent opponents at the low stakes (oxymoron?) due to rake
Do you mean population overfolds wrt. what could be considered GTO optimal?
I play 100nl+ and typical match is getting action from regfish at 6am.

I think vs high 3-bet guys I should reduce open sizing, because every time my opponents 3-bet is successful, he wins a bigger pot.
I think it also depends on how much they call pre vs 3-bet. If a guy 3-bet 30% and call 10%, we would be folding a lot to 3-bets while we don't get to see flops IP.
That said, once we call the 3-bet or 4-bet, we could consider that his 3-bet steal was unsuccesful. Problem is that I think he is getting similar risk-to-reward ratio even if we opened 2x or 3x.
So we would have to win back those 3-bet steals often enough to make it not work. And we can do that with just by opening 2x, and we lose less every time we fold.
I would have to observe my opponents and see if their range changes when I open smaller.

It would be nice to play less pots because of rake, but vs high 3-bet guys do we just have to give up this bigger opening sizing?

This one opponent, he 3-bet 24% and call 28%. Post-flop he is good.
So his Fold BB is 48%. Not making auto-profit (>62.5%), but I don't expect mR to bring auto-profit either.

If he had post-flop leaks like high FTCB and he was passive, I think then 3x would be nice, since we get to utilize that positional advantage very well.

tl;dr
- 3x brings opponent money when we fold to 3-bet
- 3x brings us money when opponent calls
- we can fight back same range regardless of opening sizing. Just lose less when we FT3B. 3x inflates the pot and makes it slightly worse to call drawing hands.

To counter the high 3-bet strategy, you could OR tight and call 3-bets wide. This villain I mentioned does call enough and not just 3-bet everything.
I don't see that strat working without playing a tight opening range. But the question is is this profitable? Another question is whether high OR % would even be good against this guy. I really like the idea of just folding pre, but sucks if I fold 30% and he only folds 5%. He would be getting easy money when I fold, while I have to fight back for every loose open that he makes. That could just be profitable, but I'm not an expert post-flop, very fit & foldish. But I do know that having 62o in your opening range makes post-flop trickier for you

Last edited by Fishtankz; 01-16-2018 at 08:21 AM.
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