The goals of the PPA and federal regulation of online poker are in absolute opposition to the ideals of libertarianism.

The ideals of libertarianism, or classical liberalism, are rooted in the ideals of Thomas Jefferson and the other founding fathers, and Adam Smith.

Thomas Jefferson was a proponent of individual freedom, and limited government. Adam Smith was a proponent of economic freedom, and recognized that individuals pursuing their own self interests cooperated to improve society as a whole. Consider these quotes:






Consider the Milton Friedman quote in regards to the PPA pushing for federal regulation of online poker. The PPA's intentions are to help poker players but what is likely to happen is that private casinos will be helped. Poker players have no seat at the bargaining table, we have no say in what is going to be in the regulations. This is not the case for the casinos that back Harry Reid. Look no further than FairPlayUSA to see what the casinos have in mind; further enforcement of the UIGEA and strict licensing, intending to minimize competition and create a monopoly.

Monopolies cannot exist in a truly free, laissez-faire market. Competition would be ample, rake would remain low as a result, and the best sites would rise to the top.

What we are certain to see in federal regulation is a slap in the face of libertarians.

no credit cards
no 18-21 year old adults
no unlicensed sites
provisions to collect taxes from players

An individual should be free to choose what he does with his own money, should be free to enter credit card debt if he wishes to take the risk, should be free to purchase services from the cheapest provider possible, and should be free to choose to file taxes or face the consequences if they don't. Federal regulation would prevent all of this.

Why should individuals be free to choose such things?

I now call for libertarians to stand up and FIGHT for your unalienable rights. Oppose the PPA and their efforts to get Congress to pass federal regulation.

A good place to start would be to follow their action threads and when they go to tweet or facebook comment someone in D.C. asking for support for federal regulation, post your own comments and point out that we have had enough of the federal government interfering with our lives, getting their hands into our pockets, and that we have unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

mommy and daddy did not give you enough attention

There's nothing wrong with Lirva making this post. Let's have the decency not to troll him. He has done a much better job the last week or so sidetracking other threads and this gives him a chance to find people who feel the same way as he does so they aren't trashing the other threads.

GL lirva. I'm afraid of snakes so I can't stay.

I mean, I don't WANT the government involved, so I do agree with some of ur points.. but they are involved already.. there will be no freedom to play poker at all unless it is regulated. I would like some kind of consumer protection that a totally unregulated market can never give you.

I do not believe in inviting the government to further regulate online poker. I believe in doing whatever is possible to drive them out.

The short history of online poker is full of examples of why regulation is needed, the sites have not been held accountable. Federal regulation will probably suck in the beginning, but I'm optimistic it'll evolve into a tolerable environment.

I really hope this won't be followed by a rant of why government sucks, but then again I'm optimistic

Of all the things for a die-hard libertarian to work for or against, stopping the US government from changing its current laws on online poker (because the US government in its current incarnation will NEVER simply make online poker the first US market free from its regulation) is a pretty poor choice IMHO.

Skallagrim

please don't mention thomas jefferson and adam smith in the same sentence.

Why not? You just did.

As to what the OP wants, it would be nice, but as someone else posted [paraphrasing] the government is already involved. We just need to get them involved in a better manner.

While I personally favor no government interference, I don’t see that as a realistic option if I want to play online poker without concern for my bankroll. I feel the government is using their ability to steal our money as leverage to force the players to accept their control. And guess what? It is working 

Since I can’t see a way to prevent government regulation, then I believe the next best thing, is to support organizations such as PPA that are trying to influence the regulations to help the players.

Rather than undermining the PPA, show me a plan that allows me to play on Party or Stars without moving and prevents the government from seizing my bankroll, without me having to resort to actions that could result in criminal charges such as fraud.

I couldn't have said it better:

I self identify as libertarian and I do not want to join, for reasons previously discussed

No discussion with this guy is possible unless you totally agree with him on everything. He is a total zealot. He has a right to post his views like anyone does, but it is a waste of time to try to reason with him if you disagree with anything. He has all the right answers, and you are always wrong if you doubt anything. Deja Vu!

Corporations didn't exist back when all your favorite quotes were made, quit quoting the past and acting like it's relevant to the future when their society was completely different from what we have now. Back when those quotes were relevant a person had to risk all of his own money to create a business, and if it failed he was held accountable. Businesses weren't limited liability, you didn't buy stock, it was all just some guy doing something, making a lot of money, expanding etc.

Beyond that, society back then didn't even truly understand science and all that jazz. They didn't know smoking was bad, they didn't know **** about asbestos, they just didn't know ****. Their intent was good, principles fine, but it's not applicable to our current society as it is completely different from back then. Cars didn't exist back then, knowledge about the environment was completely unknown, streets were dirt, food wasn't refrigerated, etc.

LirvA, I am with you my friend.

The same Thomas Jefferson who more than tripled the size of the country without consulting congress or the taxpayers?

Love that guy.

Can we at least acknowledge that, if Federal legislation is a 5-10 year fight, this battle is like a 50 year fight? I admire the stand on principles in some ways, but lets be realistic about what that stand means: you are fighting for your grandkids to be able to play online poker.

Frankly, guys, I welcome govt. regulation. When I walk into a casino, I like the fact that I know I'm going to get my money if I win. I like the fact that there are criminal penalties for cheaters. I like the fact that regulation would force sites to segregate player deposits from operating funds. I like the fact that software would be open to audits.

For those of you who argue that people would vote with their dollars away from shady online sites, there are just too many examples of sites screwing users over, from Dutch Boyd to Ultimate Bet to Full Tilt. The problem with trusting the market is that players don't know which sites are shady until they walk away with your money.

The government exists to protect citizens' rights, and yes, that includes protecting us from corporations doing unethical or illegal things.

I would love to see a world where we could all do our own thing, there were no regulations, the Tax Code was simple (putting me out of business, which I wouldn't mind), everything was peace, there were no wars, etc. The only times I think this will happen are my dreams...and I always wake up in the morning.

There are only two choices for online poker in the US. We can have (sometime in the future) regulated online poker, with licensing and regulations by government entities. Alternatively, we can have almost no online poker.

Those are the only two choices. The op's ideas will work, but only in his dreams. The US is a nation of laws and regulations, many good, some not so good. The PPA is working to get online poker licensed and regulated. Today, they are working towards the best possible result.

-- Russ Fox

It is a good thing you are just a troll that never does anything other than post on 2+2.

It would be awesome if we lived in a world where we could play online poker free from government interference (or, more directly, a world where we could do pretty much anything without government interference). Unfortunately, that's not the world in which we live. Our only two realistic options are:

A. Continue with the current state of online poker without regulation, which is a pretty ****ty one IMO. The options for US players suck, and there's the constant threat of sites being shut down.

B. Pass regulation which allows for online poker to be run by corporations such as Harrahs, etc. We may get higher rake, and we won't return to the Party Poker days, but it still should be a sustainable poker environment in which games are beatable (possibly even more so than they were in the few years leading up to Black Friday).

Fighting for an idealistic environment in which there's no government regulation is tilting at windmills.