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Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 10-31-2017, 09:09 PM   #1
Brawndo
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Proving your poker income

Not sure this fits neatly into any forum but figured this is a problem live grinders are more likely to face.

A large part of my income comes from freelance work and poker. In the next few months I'm planning to move from my current apartment to another one and my car is old so I know I'm going to need to replace that and I would prefer to take a car loan and I'm guessing they're both going to want proof of income. And even though I record every session in detail on a spreadsheet (and I can show a check from a large tournament cash) I'm guessing they're going to want harder proof than that and may be scared when they here my income comes from gambling.

So for those of you who make most of your money from poker or are self employed how do you deal with issue? PS I have a good credit rating and always paid my rent on time so I'm sure that will help.

Thanks
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:20 PM   #2
AngusThermopyle
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Re: Proving your poker income

Do you declare your poker winnings on your Federal tax return?
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:24 PM   #3
e_holle
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Re: Proving your poker income

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Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
Do you declare your poker winnings on your Federal tax return?
Beat me to it.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:30 PM   #4
Brawndo
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Re: Proving your poker income

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Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
Do you declare your poker winnings on your Federal tax return?
Yep but the money I'm making this year is different than last year. Obviously haven't done taxes for 2017 yet.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:59 PM   #5
agamblerthen
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Re: Proving your poker income

I have been self-employed for 24 of the last 26 years. I've moved three or four times during that period, and my self-employment has never been an obstacle.

If you're late with your rent and your landlord initiates eviction proceedings against you, that will show up on your credit report even if you subsequently make good on the back rent and don't get evicted. In addition, some property management companies now report their tenants' payment history to the credit reporting agencies each month, just as credit card-issuing banks do.

So print out your credit report ahead of time and bring it with you when you go to look at apartments. Or prepare a one-page "renter's résumé" that lists your residence history and the names, phone numbers, and email addresses of your former landlords.

If the landlord wants to see a recent pay stub, you can always provide a copy of your latest tax return instead. But I would not offer a spreadsheet of my poker results—nor would I give any credence to yours. It's simply too easy to create a totally fictional document that says I make thousands of dollars each week playing poker.

I have no experience securing a car loan (I've always paid cash for used cars), but I assume the relevant factors are going to be your credit report, your credit score, your tax return (to demonstrate self-employment income), the amount you want to borrow, the amount you're willing to pay as a down payment, your other outstanding debt, and your checking and savings account balances. Talk to your bank first to see what you qualify for.

If the loan officer questions poker playing as a legitimate occupation, you could always show your deposit receipts (assuming you regularly deposit cash winnings into your checking or savings account). But, again, your self-generated spreadsheet of results is not going to prove anything.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:04 PM   #6
Riverine
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Re: Proving your poker income

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Originally Posted by Brawndo View Post
Yep but the money I'm making this year is different than last year. Obviously haven't done taxes for 2017 yet.
You're in a similar situation as people who work for tips or commissions. Previous years income doesn't mean you will make that again this year, but the more years you have of taxes showing the income the better to show a reasonable expectation for a similar result this year. Then you can add some bank statements from this year showing regular deposits of winnings plus any savings to help establish your earnings in 2017 and your ability to pay in the future. Showing the spreadsheets can maybe help show you are serious about it, but especially with poker, that many just consider pure gambling, the bank statements will carry a lot more weight I would think than the spreadsheet.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:37 AM   #7
Playbig2000
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Re: Proving your poker income

you can show your last two year's tax returns and/or your last 3 months bank statements to show your deposits.

Also, depending on the apartment owner, if it's a private owner sometimes they won't even ask for anything except a credit report.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:33 PM   #8
Brawndo
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Re: Proving your poker income

Thanks guys for all the replies. And yep I know my spreadsheet wouldn't carry any weight since it's too easy to fake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
you can show your last two year's tax returns and/or your last 3 months bank statements to show your deposits.

Also, depending on the apartment owner, if it's a private owner sometimes they won't even ask for anything except a credit report.
Yep but seems like most of the places are owned by these huge property management corporations. I don't know how flexible they are about their rules.

One other question if I run into problems will most places look the other way if you pay a few months up front if they don't accept the proof I provide?
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:36 PM   #9
Playbig2000
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Re: Proving your poker income

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawndo View Post
Thanks guys for all the replies. And yep I know my spreadsheet wouldn't carry any weight since it's too easy to fake.




Yep but seems like most of the places are owned by these huge property management corporations. I don't know how flexible they are about their rules.

One other question if I run into problems will most places look the other way if you pay a few months up front if they don't accept the proof I provide?
yes and as a final option you can look for one that's privately owned on CL or in other ads.

There was a thread about this recently in LVL

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...-cash-1693628/
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:02 AM   #10
pucmo
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Re: Proving your poker income

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawndo View Post

Yep but seems like most of the places are owned by these huge property management corporations. I don't know how flexible they are about their rules.

One other question if I run into problems will most places look the other way if you pay a few months up front if they don't accept the proof I provide?
In many countries it might be easier to get a flat through a huge company, as they might only need to know you have paid your bills (maybe including your rent) and won't bother about your incomes. But something smaller than (3) person flat and you might need to wait for two years or more and might not get it. Although I know one company in Finland that seems to rent some places as soon as you have paid the 1st month's rent, and that's it.

Some/all countries have also many smaller companies or areas, so you just step in and see what they ask.

All countries have many web pages and in some countries it is easier to get a flat than in others, depending on who pays the costs, who gets the flat (1st in or a select person). Getting some shared or worse is also a possibility (they mind less), and also B&B is a consideration for a start, rather than a ho(s)tel, or camping.
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