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Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 05-07-2017, 03:38 PM   #1
LuckyManLTU
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Poker in Spain

I'm planning to move to Spain for the summer. I know that they have segregated poker market. Maybe someone of you was in the same situation. On what sites I can play? If am not resident can I still play? Is there any important things I should know? I know only about pokerstars.es.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:33 PM   #2
arkstfan
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Re: Poker in Spain

They have been talking about shared liquidity with France and Italy since I had lived there for a couple years after segregation. Stars.es is nice as is Party.es. I really liked Bet365.es also. There isn't enough liquidity to really grind on those sites though. I don't think Winamax still allows Spanish residents to create an account, but I could be wrong. Winamax is your best bet if you want to play for a living.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:55 AM   #3
LuckyManLTU
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Re: Poker in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkstfan View Post
They have been talking about shared liquidity with France and Italy since I had lived there for a couple years after segregation. Stars.es is nice as is Party.es. I really liked Bet365.es also. There isn't enough liquidity to really grind on those sites though. I don't think Winamax still allows Spanish residents to create an account, but I could be wrong. Winamax is your best bet if you want to play for a living.
Thanks, I will try to find out if I can play on Winamax
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:34 AM   #4
husler
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Re: Poker in Spain

could you play on winamax?
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:27 AM   #5
pucmo
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Re: Poker in Spain

Winamax and Stars.es are in the 2nd biggest group of sites being as big as Party.com, Bovada/Ignition (accepts only Americans), WPN (has action at times .es has little). Winamax doesn't figure to accept Portugal but it accepts the free world/EU (that may not be many if it is just the free EU that is zero as soon as the rest of them get regulated).

Party.es didn't look like to have a reasonable rake and the VIP is basically just 10% instead of 20%. Party.com has basically a 4% rake with a cap of 2.40 with the 20% rakeback that one gets by raking about 50 to 250 per week (10% at Party.es).

Winamax Gold VIP was like 16%, the rake 5.75%; one just needs to achieve that level every month to keep it, being like the old Stars.com VIP system. The downside with Winamax and the EU sites generally is that the action is more or less dead during the mornings and days. This is so even for Stars.com in cases.

Stars.es is 5% zoom rake (a permanent discount) and 5.75% (I think) regular table rake that they like to play a lot but at some PLO less so.

If it is "illegal" to play wherever when being regulated and online gambling is legal, my opinion is that it is NOT illegal, as it is not the same thing as playing in an illegal cardroom because it doesn't exist inside the country. The states in the USA that have illegal online gambling or/and are regulated are often not accepted to play at the US ("illegal") sites.

Chico (5.5% rake) accepts most of the countries (not France, or BetOnline might not have a mention in Terms of banning any country) and is about 1/4th of size of the 2nd biggest sites but at peak time and 5-7 hours (US time) after the EU action dies they can run still strong and then at some limits have more action as all the other Mediterranean combo sites together.

The Chinese/agent sites will also accept players from regulated countries (officially you might yourself be from Eastern Asia or so).

The EU sites consider it illegal inside the EU to accept the regulated EU and other regulated countries but accept countries outside of the EU rather liberally. Basically, no player anywhere get in legal trouble when he plays poker online when online poker or gambling is legal. Only the tax issue can get one is trouble like Al Capone.

JuicyStakes: "No sign-ups initiated from France and Spain will be accepted. Juicy Stakes Poker reserves the right to refuse new registrations from the following states in the US: Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Missouri, New Jersey, New York and Washington."

Intertops: "No sign-ups initiated from Australia, Austria, France, Spain, and from the United Kingdom will be accepted in the Poker Room. INTERTOPS reserves the right to refuse new registrations from the following states in the US: Delaware, Kentucky, Nevada, Washington state and Utah."

Legal online poker: Nevada, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey. Maybe more likely not accepted if regulated (like in the EU) or illegal online poker/gambling.

New Jersey was maybe the latest that had legal/regulated gambling. A lot of the other US-states are not regulated and they might not have online poker/gambling as illegal, in case one can guess they are most likely accepted. Not being accepted doesn't mean it is illegal for the player when online poker is legal. Italians have always been accepted at this network, just not much action anymore. The only ex-Cake skin I had no trouble with was Intertops. A rakeback from an affiliate (with races in cases). They will ask papers when cashing out, so needs some testing first. 10% of deposit needs to be played, like at WPN, or no cashout.

WPN generally states in Terms it doesn't accept players from the USA. Even Sweden is not accepted and they are only regulated. France, Spain, Italy not accepted. However, tons of the players there are from the USA, using the Americas Cardroom skin that accepts select states. WPN has a normal rake minus rakeback through an affiliate. Semi-US action times.

Americas Cardroom: "Residents of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, State of Maryland, State of New Jersey, State of Delaware, State of Nevada or Washington State may not download and use the Software for any purpose." "No license is granted hereunder to any User located within any jurisdiction where such offer of a license by ACR or use by such person thereof shall violate any applicable laws." "Residents of Sweden, Guadeloupe, French Guyana, Mayotte, Réunion, Martinique, France, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Louisiana, Kentucky, Maryland, New Jersey, Delaware, Nevada or Washington State are not permitted to view this site or use any of the games accessed through software downloads provided hereby. From time to time, in its sole discretion, ACR may amend the list of specific geographic restrictions from which You may not access any of the Services."

If you don't already have an account at WPN (the same for Chico, in case they change their Terms), it doesn't look like you will get to play there. If you have, it is unclear to me as I have seen a couple of players from some of those countries (Sweden, Italy). They don't ban UK, Bulgaria nor Portugal players and they are regulated. Greece is there (licensed, paying tax?). Russia is happily there but they are not regulated. Australia is accepted (not regulated?), and Israel.

Site rules when it comes to the countries do not apply to the players, it being different. Being a resident or a national (citizen is either one) may also be one issue, as one may not be or both. A site might not accept a tourist play, or accepts it with limitations.

The Italian wire act or so stating online gambling is illegal is of course not valid since they made online gambling legal after that. In Italy, NLH tournaments are both legal and skill, while holdem cash is legal but gambling, while the other forms are gambling and up to illegal, depending on developments since those laws and regulations but they still might be allowed to play for money only NLH tournaments at their several cardrooms, as some tried cash and they were possibly closed or something.

PLO and Spain fit together, it not being a popular form in Italy and even the legality in Italy is unclear to me but anything legally offered online figures legal. Gambling online is legal in Spain; you just have to pay income tax of winnings.
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