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Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 10-20-2014, 07:07 PM   #1
ArtanisAce
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Poker online situation in poland

Hi! I recently moved to poland and I would like to know how is the situation here; I'm not sure about taxes to pay if you cashout money to bank, for example on .fr sites. Can someone give me info? Thanks!
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:05 PM   #2
6471849653
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

Illegal in poland , though there of course are details like if u need to pay tax there during ur 1st year or so, as sort of non resident, and if this or that bank allows this or that much money transfers without checking it, and if it is legal for an eu site to offer their games to poland, but if it is illegal for a resident or even for a tourist to gamble eg. online there including in eu sites.

Not a happy place for online poker at this time but doesnt seem to be illegal to offer eu games to them, just fund ur account other than w ur bank in poland, and it should work, till they regulate or get ur nick and track ur winnings.
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:19 AM   #3
ArtanisAce
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

Thanks for reply! But can't understand this very good: " just fund ur account other than w ur bank in poland" ??
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:27 AM   #4
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

egr (paywall) is reporting that Polish government threatening crackdown with fines and imprisonment of PLAYERS using unlicensed sites.

The max penalty is 2 years in gaol so the offence qualifies for a European Arrest Warrant so if charged moving elsewhere may not help.

Here is the link for anyone who has paid them for the content. Tells you less than the above without that.
http://www.egrmagazine.com/news/pola...licensed_sites
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:45 PM   #5
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

Calvin Ayre piece, this is some serious stuff for Poles.

http://calvinayre.com/2014/11/26/bus...line-gamblers/

Quote:
The notice says the Ministry of Finance has identified over 24k players patronizing international sites, 17,700 of which have won a combined PLN 27m (US $8m). The notice says 1,100 investigations have been launched in this area, with extra attention being paid to those bettors who have earned the most or who prove most reluctant to curtail their illegal activity.
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Old 11-28-2014, 08:41 PM   #6
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

I was going to make a thread with that link in NVG Richas but thought I would check this forum first and see you had it up here a couple of days ago. TBH you should prob post it in NVG as it is massive news for poles.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:58 AM   #7
xPeru
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New laws in Poland will see PokerStars, 888 etc exit the market

The decision to add online poker to Poland's new gaming laws was made late in the process and my expectation was that PokerStars et al would be able to apply for gaming license.

Turns out I was wrong. Online poker will only be allowed if it is offered through a new state monopoly.

WEF Jan 2017, the major poker sites will all have to exit Poland, unless the EU Commission rejects the new legislation.

http://www.onlinepokerreport.com/220...tate-monopoly/
Text of law in Polish is http://orka.sejm.gov.pl/Druki8ka.nsf/Projekty/8-020-300-2016/$file/8-020-300-2016.pdf

This is going to be a right royal shafting for Polish players.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:59 AM   #8
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Re: New laws in Poland will see PokerStars, 888 etc exit the market

Hi xPeru, hope you won't mind some questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xPeru View Post
The decision to add online poker to Poland's new gaming laws was made late in the process and my expectation was that PokerStars et al would be able to apply for gaming license.

Turns out I was wrong. Online poker will only be allowed if it is offered through a new state monopoly.
Would you say that this is the correct interpretation of the law or that this seems to be the correct interpretation of the law? It seems to me that the article you wrote for OPR left the door open for different interpretations by stressing the ambiguity in the text of the law. On the other hand, your post here seems to more unambiguous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xPeru View Post
WEF Jan 2017, the major poker sites will all have to exit Poland, unless the EU Commission rejects the new legislation.
What are the chances of this happening? Can poker players do something about it? If so, how? You wrote a lot about different CJEU decisions, that opposed the restrictive gambling regulations (and I enjoy your articles very much). Do you know any rulings that were in favor of the state monopoly like this one?
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:17 AM   #9
xPeru
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

I've talked to some operators and their compliance people and legal advice is clear that the govt intends a monopoly so they won't get licenses.

However, he big poker operators are lobbying the EU Commission to demand changes to the proposals, particularly the idea of having a state monopoly.

Other countries, probably incl the UK are also likely to complain about the law.

What I expect to happen is for the EU to delay giving their approval for three months, to allow the Polish govt to respond to the complaints.

If the EU Commission isn't happy with Poland's response, it can refuse approval. If that happens, then every operator licensed in another EU country can get stuck in and offer online poker in Poland.

What might happen is that Poland accepts some changes are necessary, and amends the law. This depends entirely on the political situation in Poland. I don't see it clearly enough to know which way the govt will jump.

If you're in Poland, you can write to your local politician and tell him or her that the proposals for a monopoly are contrary to the Treaty for European Union, Article 56, and ask him to support a licensing system that enables operators licensed in other EU member states to apply for Polish licenses.

That will provide more consumer protection and more taxes than the state monopoly can provide, because many players will simply exit the regulated market and play at unlicensed sites such as Black Chip Poker.
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Old 09-01-2016, 04:29 AM   #10
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

Thank you for your detailed answer.

I was asking, because there's similar situation here in Slovakia. Online poker and online casino games (but not online betting) are restricted by law to the state monopoly. This haven't matter so far, because there's no provisions for ISP and financial transaction blocking included in the text of the law. There was at least one attempt I know about to include such provisions into the law, but it was stopped by Ministry of Justice back then, precisely because there was a possibility that the law might breach EU treaties.

However, the situation might change because the new amendments to the gambling law proposed this year by Slovak Ministry of Finance do include provisions for ISP and financial transaction blocking of unlicensed operators.

The amendments have just made it through Interdepartmental Comments Procedure stage (this is a stage, where other government agencies and general public can send their comments to the proposer of the law). Not surprisingly, all comments (including my own) asking to remove blocking provision from the amendments or to exclude online poker from the state monopoly were rejected.

It seems to me that the way the EC will handle Polish laws might have significant consequences for Slovak legislation. Despite the fact, that Polish laws are establishing the state monopoly and in Slovakia the state monopoly is already established. Though I know too little about the subject to be sure.

So, if I understand it correctly, every change in the gambling laws in any member state has to be approved by EC. And government agencies from other countries, as well as lobbying groups can influence EC decision by making comments or complaints about proposed laws. Is this process transparent? Is there some legislative portal, where I can track the current status, see complaints from other agencies and maybe even the polish response to them? Is it possible for general public to add comments of their own?
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:20 PM   #11
xPeru
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

All EU member states have to submit all laws and legal regulations to the EU Commission for approval. They can't become law until they are approved.

The Commission sees itself as the "guardian of the treaties," but since it is made up of politicians, it is naturally political in some of its decisions. E.g it approved Greek gambling laws during the fiscal crisis knowing full well that they would be struck down in the courts.

You don't get a say in the approval process, the Commission does give the Council of Ministers the chance to object to any legislation submitted for approval so governments can file objections.

If you want to get involved, you have the right to complain directly to the Commission:

http://ec.europa.eu/atwork/applying-...mplaint_en.htm

Complain to the European Commission
  • Anyone may lodge a complaint with the Commission against a Member State for any measure (law, regulation or administrative action) or practice attributable to a Member State which they consider incompatible with a provision or a principle of EU law
  • You can use any EU language in dealing with the European Commission
  • The Commission will reply with an official reference number
  • The Commission will “endeavour to take a decision on the substance (either to open infringement proceedings or to close the case) within twelve months“
  • If you get no reply from the Commission, or if the reply is incorrect, or if the commission acted illegally, then you can complain to the European Ombudsman
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:43 AM   #12
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

Thank you.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:32 PM   #13
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Re: New laws in Poland will see PokerStars, 888 etc exit the market

Hope you won't mind another question I've been trying to understand the legal situation surrounding gambling in different EU member states, but still have a lot to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xPeru View Post
WEF Jan 2017, the major poker sites will all have to exit Poland, unless the EU Commission rejects the new legislation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPeru View Post
This is going to be a right royal shafting for Polish players.
So, if I understand you correctly, you think that when the law comes into effect, the major operators will leave Polish market.

Why do you think that? What's the difference between Polish laws and for example Lithuanian laws? I mean, if one can make an argument that Lithuanian laws break EU treaties, one can surely make the same argument about Polish laws. And from that I've read, the major sites don't really care that much, whether or not they are blacklisted by Lithuanian gaming authority. They continue to serve Lithuanian customers regardless. Why is Poland different?

Finland may be another example. Finland state monopoly has been approved by EC. Nevertheless, the major operators still serve Finish customers. Though, as far as I know, Finland doesn't do ISP blocking or financial transaction blocking.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:45 PM   #14
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

http://www.onlinepokerreport.com/222...-eu-countries/
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:10 PM   #15
Kez3
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Re: Poker online situation in poland

How do Polish poker players still play on Stars given than their country has blocked access to the site?
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