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Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 02-02-2018, 09:25 PM   #1
Poker Clif
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Playing online in the state of Washingon

I play on Juicy Stakes Poker about 6.5 days a week and I noticed that there is a player that is almost always in the same tournaments as I. We are at the same final table so often that I joked with my wife that he is stalking me. I got curious about him and decided to do a search.

I looked up his city and found out that he plays in a pub league in the state of Washington. I'm not sure what I should do with this information.

Should I send a note to that pub league (or to him directly) warning him/them that playing online is illegal? I read recently that no one has been arrested under that law, but it's not a chance that I would take.

I'm also writing this to make sure that what he's doing is illegal in Washington. Is that still the case?

Last edited by Poker Clif; 02-02-2018 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Deleted a confusing sentence. No significant content change regarding the issue.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:24 PM   #2
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

PC, I live in WA. Still a felony to play online poker. True, no cases in court afaik but I do not take the risk (too much to lose).

Do nothing with regard to villain. You are not his "guardian angel". And....as you said.... it is not a risk you (or I) would take...but apparently one that villain is comfortable taking. He may be much younger than you or I.... but let him live his own life, learning during the process.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:21 AM   #3
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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PC, I live in WA. Still a felony to play online poker. True, no cases in court afaik but I do not take the risk (too much to lose).

Do nothing with regard to villain. You are not his "guardian angel". And....as you said.... it is not a risk you (or I) would take...but apparently one that villain is comfortable taking. He may be much younger than you or I.... but let him live his own life, learning during the process.
My main concern, especially if he is younger and his only live poker contacts are pub league players, is that he does not know that what he is doing is illegal. I don't want to "out" anyone or tell him what to do, even though he was once again at my final table last night and sitting on my left. We both cashed, mine was higher. Maybe I could send an informational note to his pub league without naming anyone, and individual members of the league can do whatever they want with the information.
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:28 PM   #4
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

If it were me, I would let it go.
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:59 AM   #5
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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If it were me, I would let it go.
The more I think about it, you're probably right.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:20 PM   #6
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

Many players from Washington State still avail themselves of the black market sites still serving this state, in spite of the felony prohibition.

It is unlikely this player is unaware of the law, but it is even more unlikely this player would ever be charged with a crime.

It is important to the cause of legalization that people flout the current prohibition. It demonstrates that there is a market and that prohibition is ineffective.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:48 PM   #7
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

Saw in another thread that Stars now prevents Play Money players from the state of WA.

So I logged in to find out myself.....and it is true.

lol, WA.
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Old 04-06-2018, 12:45 AM   #8
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
Saw in another thread that Stars now prevents Play Money players from the state of WA.

So I logged in to find out myself.....and it is true.

lol, WA.
Since you seem to be up on all this stuff I have a question. I've watched recent poker coaching videos where the pro is analyzing a video of hands that he played on PokerStars. His residence is in the United States. How does he do that? He's obviously not afraid of anyone knowing what he's doing.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:31 PM   #9
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
Saw in another thread that Stars now prevents Play Money players from the state of WA.

So I logged in to find out myself.....and it is true.

lol, WA.
It's laughable
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Old 04-08-2018, 04:01 AM   #10
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
Since you seem to be up on all this stuff I have a question. I've watched recent poker coaching videos where the pro is analyzing a video of hands that he played on PokerStars. His residence is in the United States. How does he do that? He's obviously not afraid of anyone knowing what he's doing.
Maybe they have a residence in Vancouver BC as well.

My Washington state pop-up stopped showing up, maybe I will contact support to see if I can play play-chips in WA.
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Old 04-08-2018, 02:27 PM   #11
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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My Washington state pop-up stopped showing up, maybe I will contact support to see if I can play play-chips in WA.
still blocked
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:51 PM   #12
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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still blocked
Brutal.. as a WA resident who actually plays online..

You would have to think WA is furthest behind in terms of legalizing any online form of poker, right?


Thanks,
T
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Old 04-10-2018, 07:05 PM   #13
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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Brutal.. as a WA resident who actually plays online..

You would have to think WA is furthest behind in terms of legalizing any online form of poker, right?


Thanks,
T
You might think that, but I wouldn't agree. There are other states who simply are never going to allow onling gambling (HI and UT for sure, others no doubt).

The main obstacle is the WIGA, who are currently opposed to online gaming of any kind. That could change, but it's NOT going to change if we are rallying behind Pokerstars and their insistance of being the forward brand.

There is zero reason for the WIGA to change its position and allow a market to open to a foreign operator. It really is that simple.

One of the ideas I have floated is a lottery approach, where the state is the sole operator in partnership with (888, or) whoever, and where the state lottery can seek interstate pooling. The primary advantages for the state are a better revenue position, and with an expansion of the lottery always comes an opportunity for the tribes to add machines, which is something they are always interested in.

If there is something for the Tribe to get in return, they could be convinced, in my humble opinion.

But nobody else is interested in that approach, so ...

wait for the proverbial dominos to fall, or your social security check, whichever comes first lol
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:46 PM   #14
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

Two Years!*




*provided that SS doesn't fail earlier than that

...............guess I'll go with the dominos
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:34 PM   #15
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
Saw in another thread that Stars now prevents Play Money players from the state of WA.

So I logged in to find out myself.....and it is true.

lol, WA.
It is absolutely pathetic that Pokerstars now prohibits Washington state residents from even participating in PLAY Money gaming. I mean, how ridiculous is that?

I realize that the WIGA (Washington Indian Gaming Association) has the state legislature in their pocket, but there is literally no other state (not even Utah or the Bible Belt states) where the restrictions against online poker are so severe that even PLAY Money gaming is banned.

Truly disgraceful.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:03 PM   #16
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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It is absolutely pathetic that Pokerstars now prohibits Washington state residents from even participating in PLAY Money gaming. I mean, how ridiculous is that?

I realize that the WIGA (Washington Indian Gaming Association) has the state legislature in their pocket, but there is literally no other state (not even Utah or the Bible Belt states) where the restrictions against online poker are so severe that even PLAY Money gaming is banned.

Truly disgraceful.
It is not the view of the Washington State Gambling Commission, who is charged with enforcing gaming laws in WA, that play money poker on Pokerstars is gambling

Pokerstars made the decision on their own. Why risk it I guess
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:02 AM   #17
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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It is not the view of the Washington State Gambling Commission, who is charged with enforcing gaming laws in WA, that play money poker on Pokerstars is gambling

Pokerstars made the decision on their own. Why risk it I guess

Actually, this might have something to do with it:

Washington State finds Big Fish Casino social casino app to be illegal gambling under state law
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:07 PM   #18
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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For sure it does. But check with WSGC and you'll see Im right
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:19 PM   #19
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

https://www.wsgc.wa.gov/news/press-r...ished-decision
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:11 PM   #20
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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For sure it does. But check with WSGC and you'll see Im right
I just meant it might have something to do with PS's decision to cut out play-money games.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:50 PM   #21
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

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I just meant it might have something to do with PS's decision to cut out play-money games.
I understand, and it is indeed the reason. No skin off of Pokerstars to just stop play money play in WA, so why risk it, right? Certainly understandable, its not like play chippers are even customers

However, it isn't correct to state that WA law prohibits play money poker, which is the point I was trying to make.

For starters, it's a 9th Circuit decision, and the 9th Circuit is overturned on appeal at nearly 80%, so a ridiculous ruling by this court is most likely to be overturned.

It doesn't have immediate effect on the law in the State of Washington, nor the way the law is enforced. If it had, then the WSGC would have sent C&D letters to operators like Pokerstars informing them that their product violated state law. No such letter has been sent, and the WSGC's reaction to Pokerstars blocking WA players was "really?"
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:31 AM   #22
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Re: Playing online in the state of Washingon

PokerStars is licensed in several US jurisdictions for real-money play. If what they are doing is Washington is deemed illegal, they risk loss of their licensing regardless of the attitude of the Washington regulators towards the court decision. It also might come back to bite them should Washington someday offer licensing, even if they never received a C&D. So yeah, why risk it?
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