Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2014, 08:29 AM   #1
4-Star General
adept
 
4-Star General's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,010
Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-and-re...oved-portugal/

Quote:
The gaming tax (IEJo) on games of chance—that would appear to include online poker—would range from 15% to 30%. Sports betting will attract a rate of 37.5%.
With this taxes is poker beatable?
4-Star General is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:53 AM   #2
GreenZen
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 320
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

and can u tell me please if this means pt pool is gonna be segregated ??

Even 15% is to much are these guys crazy....
GreenZen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 02:06 PM   #3
4-Star General
adept
 
4-Star General's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,010
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

in Italy is even more higher, 20% I think
4-Star General is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:13 PM   #4
Richas
veteran
 
Richas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the learning curve
Posts: 3,439
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen View Post
and can u tell me please if this means pt pool is gonna be segregated ??

Even 15% is to much are these guys crazy....
15% of the pot would be impossible to beat but a tax on the rake of 15% shouldn't be a killer. Article not 100% clear but from past recollections this is a tax on the revenues of the site revenues not the pot/tournament prize.
Richas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 04:55 AM   #5
Hood
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Hood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 99 problems but a TT+ just ship pf
Posts: 6,711
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Percentages are gross gaming revenue. So 15% is the same as NJ, lower than Spain, France, Italy and Denmark.
Hood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 10:56 PM   #6
GreenZen
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 320
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

what about segregation is it gonna happen ?? we are so small , the only thingi found was that it was at least studied the chance of a pool segregation with 3 or 4 countries but im clueless..

about taxes i play only sng or mtt , so the % is only applied on the rake right ?
GreenZen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:00 AM   #7
Hood
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Hood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 99 problems but a TT+ just ship pf
Posts: 6,711
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

We don't know, but I speculated a bit in NVG.

Taxes are collected from the operator by total gaming revenue generated (so yes, rake). At 15%-20%, what you'll probably see is probably rewards programs reduced a bit to compensate.
Hood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2014, 08:01 PM   #8
NoKlue1234
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 149
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Argue good or bad...but how is almost that every (not really but feels like it) country is able to come to quick legislation but good ole US of A cant seem to even come close ? And why are we (pro legislation) not bring up all of the other countries legalizing when it comes to concerns that are brought up?? i.e Underage gambling, Money Laundering. Why are these countries not overly worried about it?
NoKlue1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 08:31 PM   #9
pokerace37
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 148
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoKlue1234 View Post
how is almost that every (not really but feels like it) country is able to come to quick legislation but good ole US of A cant seem to even come close ?
Because we need to be protected from the dangers of online poker.

It is sad how we used to be the land of the free, but we are quickly becoming one of the most conservative countries in the world.
pokerace37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:31 PM   #10
GreenZen
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 320
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

what about pool segregation any news ??? Portugal is to small to make is own pool , if they segregate us and not include any other country i believe its a disaster for portuguese players . Some people might not have notion but new york it self has almost the same number of people that lives in portugal.......
GreenZen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2014, 08:10 AM   #11
Hood
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Hood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 99 problems but a TT+ just ship pf
Posts: 6,711
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen View Post
what about pool segregation any news ???
3 posts up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
We don't know, but I speculated a bit in NVG.
Hood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2014, 11:32 AM   #12
MKarne
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 762
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Considering how the other eu countries have done it, the odds are in favor of segregation and realistically the best u can hope is that it stays open at least for the eu players, like in france i think, and if ur games are low enough rake, vips good enough, games good enough, pools big enough .. some hope for nlh, little hope for tournaments, no hope for other forms of poker.

The italy spain pool seems to be in ice, and france declined. U might have to play in the wild west, making ur online gambling much more dangerous, thank to segregation, and figuring out if its even legal isnt clear, though imo it usually is, especially under eu, though much of wild west is non eu, but seems legal to me.
MKarne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2014, 07:17 PM   #13
Richas
veteran
 
Richas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the learning curve
Posts: 3,439
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne View Post
Considering how the other eu countries have done it, the odds are in favor of segregation and realistically the best u can hope is that it stays open at least for the eu players, like in france i think, and if ur games are low enough rake, vips good enough, games good enough, pools big enough .. some hope for nlh, little hope for tournaments, no hope for other forms of poker.
How to calculate the odds? Other EU countries have segregated to tax but now Portugal has the UK example of Point of Consumption taxation and multiple licences. Given the collapse in revenues in places like Spain and France and the survey data that shows widespread use (40%+) of offshore sites the rational (pun intended) choice would be to choose the Uk model not the Spanish or French.
Richas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 09:22 PM   #14
MKarne
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 762
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

One of the best if not the best and only best possibility for eu grinders is portugal if it picks the uk model. Also italy spain pool would be a major change.

If its income tax free winnings, also makes a difference if one wants to pay tax or not, though one can pay tax in another country .. work plus or just poker incomes .. and then spend the pension in eg. portugal, but one is stuck elsewhere then till pension, until one grinds during pension also, to pay at least for the flat.

Tax free means one works in portugal, sooner or later, or only poker but then grinds at least the flat costs during pension or moves back to ones country, or in nepal or india as they are the cheapest, though romania is cheap and close, and bulgaria but 888 and party block bulgaria .. party blocks india also.

Spanish and italian are very similar, and maybe portuguese is also, and at least there is also brazil, additionally to eu, good weather, sea, west, better safety.
MKarne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2015, 09:50 AM   #15
sexyjesus
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Euroland
Posts: 1,112
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

I believe the new legislation will be enforced this month or the next.

Players won't be paying taxes because the government decided to make only one law for everything (poker, casino and sports betting), so poker is considered a game of luck, and because in such games players don't win in the long run they shouldn't be taxed.

Companies have to pay 15%, but we all know who will be the final payer - the player - with higher rake or lower fpp benefits.

About the pool, the legislation doesn't say anything specific to this matter. I believe that a law maker already clarified that companies can do whatever they want. So obviously we're going to have an open market, only that the account balances must be in Euros.


All in all it's not that bad.

France, Spain and Italy should revise their legislations and have an open market.
sexyjesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 09:19 AM   #16
lMikro
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 436
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

.com pool has players who can get away with collusion, botting. Though there might be no law against it but it should be one idea of regulated poker.

If poker is gambling in portugal, professionals might not get in portugal.

Euro? I think 888 poker is in dollars and if u deposit with euros, the cost might be as high as 10% when one deposits w dollars to 888 euroaccount, thats why i changed it to dollars, that was done instantly after asking on chat and no deposit costs anymore. plus there is next to no rakeback. There might be problems in party and even in stars.

Last edited by lMikro; 06-08-2015 at 09:31 AM.
lMikro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2015, 08:41 AM   #17
MKarne
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 762
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

I dont have to give portugal a shot having picked romania but the odds are good it is a half costs and better weather version of the uk with the possible difference in limitations of where one can play but there has been no such law outside of the regulated sites but it is .com pool so the account should stay as before, just with a cut, after one cant use ones software anymore.
MKarne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 02:32 PM   #18
Richas
veteran
 
Richas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the learning curve
Posts: 3,439
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Will Hill, Party and PKR have quit Portugese market.

Stars and Tilt have also stopped taking sign ups from Portugal for now but vow to return once they can get a licence.

http://calvinayre.com/2015/07/02/bus...medium=twitter
Richas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 05:37 AM   #19
Deepak
veteran
 
Deepak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Refresh and Restart
Posts: 2,649
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

can anybody explain in cliffs what is going on in portugal legislation?
do i have to take any steps asap?
Deepak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 06:07 AM   #20
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,427
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

See this thread:

Portugal’s New Online Gambling Regulations: What Poker Players Need to Know
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 12:00 PM   #21
Deepak
veteran
 
Deepak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Refresh and Restart
Posts: 2,649
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

we should do a mass email campaign. some of the stuff like banning heads-up is ridiculous
especially since hyper turbos are one of the best grossing rake games

apparently it worked to avoid segregation last time

is anyone up for organizing it asap?
Deepak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2015, 10:22 AM   #22
Atomfred
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 74
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

What you mean? Just send the email and contact all the players who you know and who could be interested, we got no time left to organize anything.
Atomfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2015, 09:24 PM   #23
Dilho
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N/A
Posts: 23
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

Pokerstars is going down in Portugal until October when licenses start being issued by the gov.

Now every day you will see another room leaving our country and this is getting really f*** up since is just starting summer and we all gonna lose tons of games because of this...

But on the bright side players won't be taxed, we will see VIP cuts instead,
Dilho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2015, 08:04 PM   #24
Malte suckt
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 233
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

what about the ban of headsup, spins etc, any updates?
Malte suckt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2015, 12:58 PM   #25
D33P
old hand
 
D33P's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: grindin`town
Posts: 1,932
Re: Online Gambling Bill Approved in Portugal

no updates on that, we will know it all untill the end of August.

some of it is already known (prices of taxes and licenses, for example...).
D33P is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online