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Houston Activists Publish Texas Poker Club Legal Guide--Accurate? Houston Activists Publish Texas Poker Club Legal Guide--Accurate?

07-24-2017 , 06:28 PM
I ran across this today:
https://www.stopillegalgamblinghouston.org/legal-guide

It's a pretty detailed legal guide these guys put together with former District Attorney-types (they say). In short, it appears to lay out a case why the new paid-membership poker clubs in Texas (like Mint Poker and Texas Card House) are illegal.

I'm no attorney. Is there anyone out there who's pretty knowledgeable on this stuff who can comment on whether or not this guide is reasonably accurate?

I was thinking of maybe starting a poker club...now I'm not so sure.
Houston Activists Publish Texas Poker Club Legal Guide--Accurate? Quote
08-15-2017 , 02:56 PM
New member here. Researching Texas Card Rooms as well and stumbled onto 2+2.

I would be very suspicious of the "Stop Illegal Gambling Houston" web-site. There is little information about who is behind the operation of the site nor what their motivations are, and from that perspective it's possible it's somebody in the Oklahoma or Louisiana casino industry or running a big local underground game with something to gain from shutting these rooms down. There used to be big local underground games all around Texas and they stand to lose a lot if these rooms expand.

In actuality it seems that Texas Poker Rooms are technically legal but certainly against the "spirit" of the law.

The basis of the argument in their article is very flimsy. First of all, we don't know if they actually spoke with any (edit: Former) assistant-DAs, but that in itself is not extremely impressive. You can find a lawyer to argue on the side of any topic you want. A lawyer's job is to make a case, not necessarily to interpret the law accurately.

For example, in this article posted yesterday in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram (originally from the Houston Chronicle), "University of Houston political science professor Brandon Rottinghaus said he believes the membership poker club business model is legal"....

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/st...167085022.html

But may still receive pushback because while technically legal may be against the "spirit" of the law.

The owner of Mint Poker in Houston also said they made the city attorney aware of what they were doing before they did it:

"In our conversations with the city attorney here in our jurisdiction, we made everyone aware of what we were doing before we even signed the lease,"

The room in Plano, "Poker Rooms of Texas" has an official certificate of occupancy from the city who are also well aware of what is going on there, as well as a state tax ID.

The argument on the "stopillegalgamblinghouston" is weak, and would essentially be left off to the whims of a judge. Their argument is basically: Look, we know that gambling is going on in the establishment, regardless of whether or not there is a membership fee associated with it, and we don't believe that the membership fee makes the place actually private, even if it technically does.

You can know something is true but if it is technically legal then you don't have a true open-and-shut case. It really would be a coin flip if it ever went to a court room.

When I go to Top Golf, I have to buy a Membership card to play. $5. Then they charge an hourly rate. They don't turn anyone away either. But you still have to become a member to play, and they still very much call it a membership card.

And I'm sure some day it will, but there is not a lot of financial incentive for municipalities or even the state to shut these games down. A lot of the money that is there is just going to go back underground where there is no tax benefit, or people in Dallas (to Oklahoma) or near Louisiana will simply go back out of state.

What I think the rooms need to do is diversify what they offer. Do Daily Fantasy Sports, host PPV nights for big fights, put up a pool table and dart board, add Golden Tee, get a TABC card so you can serve food and people "can come for dinner" if they want.. The more you make it seem as though your private club is not strictly just about playing poker -- even if that is in fact the main draw -- the more you seem like a truly private club.

Nobody is talking about the legality of poker games in private Country Clubs where a lot of other stuff happens. Make it an actual social club where poker is simply the premiere drawing card, and there is very little legal ground to stand on for the illegal side IMO.
Houston Activists Publish Texas Poker Club Legal Guide--Accurate? Quote
08-15-2017 , 04:20 PM
The website says they spoke to District Attorneys and US Attorneys.

As a lawyer and poker player it makes the exact same argument anyone would make regarding the illegality of these rooms under the statutes as written.

I've also thought about starting a poker room based on this membership model, but the publicity the Houston rooms have gotten makes me think this is going to approach a conclusion soon enough.

Even if legal, I can't fathom that the legislature doesn't close the gap in the next legislative session. Like the Poli-Sci guy says - even if you believe they are technically legal, the bigger issue is they violate the spirit of the law. The legislation, the AG, the Governor will clean that up soon IMHO.
Houston Activists Publish Texas Poker Club Legal Guide--Accurate? Quote
08-17-2017 , 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEECH
The website says they spoke to District Attorneys and US Attorneys.

As a lawyer and poker player it makes the exact same argument anyone would make regarding the illegality of these rooms under the statutes as written.

I've also thought about starting a poker room based on this membership model, but the publicity the Houston rooms have gotten makes me think this is going to approach a conclusion soon enough.

Even if legal, I can't fathom that the legislature doesn't close the gap in the next legislative session. Like the Poli-Sci guy says - even if you believe they are technically legal, the bigger issue is they violate the spirit of the law. The legislation, the AG, the Governor will clean that up soon IMHO.
It's certainly possible they will "close the gap" soon, as you say. I think there's a fair argument to be made either way when it comes to how the politics of it will play out. Gov. Abbott does have a tendency to suddenly go on "crusades".

I think one of the positives that may be on the side of it remaining at least legally gray is that Ken Paxton really hasn't progressed with shutting down daily fantasy sports as quickly as I expected he would, and has faced considerable push back on that end. Since from a legality perspective DFS is literally just a raked game, maybe that is a positive angle from which Texas poker players could look at things.

Living in DFW this is less of a concern for me because WinStar is right up the road and Choctaw not too much further, but it's a real shame for the larger more Central/Southern cities like Austin/San Antonio. There aren't that many cities in the country the size of Austin and San Antonio where you have to travel more than an hour or two for a decent poker room. Too bad.
Houston Activists Publish Texas Poker Club Legal Guide--Accurate? Quote
10-30-2017 , 04:31 PM
MINT POKER is a illegal gambling room 100% 1. you are allowed to remove chips from table to buy tip chips for dealers economic benefit 2. you are allowed to remove chips from table to by time chips that are collected by Floor persons. ILLEGAL and they have a uniformed Webster officer standing next to cage. Webster police must condone illegal gambling
Houston Activists Publish Texas Poker Club Legal Guide--Accurate? Quote

      
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