Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-28-2015, 11:23 AM   #176
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Just to clarify, what the Seminoles did, through their lawyer, is file a Petition to File an Amicus Curiae (Friend of the Court) Brief. The Seminoles are not a party in this case (Gretna Racing, LLC v. Department of Business and Professional Regulation) and hence cannot file a brief unless the Petition to File Amicus Curiae Brief is granted. The Petition details why the Seminoles have a strong interest in the case and on the subject matter of the appeal. If the Seminoles Petition is granted, they will be allowed to file a brief supporting the State’s position. In fact, the Seminole’s Brief was filled with their Petition. However, it will not be considered unless the Petition is granted. (Briefs are written documents containing statement of fact, issues presented, and arguments containing facts and law supporting a party’s position on the issues.)

There is no testimony taken in appellate courts.

I checked the docket sheet and there has not been a ruling on either the Motion for Rehearing en banc or the Petition. If the Motion is granted, I would expect the Seminole’s Petition would be too. By the way, prior to the oral argument in the case, Gadsden County filed a Petition to File an Amicus Curiae Brief and it was granted.

I think Poker Xanadu is right and the state will “’’keep the genie in the bottle’ by renewing the exclusivities in the compact with the tribe.” Although I too am keeping my fingers crossed that the state grants the pari-mutuels Internet poker, I do not believe that will happened. It would be perceived as a vast expansion of gaming within the state. I believe any concessions made to the pari-mutuels will be limited to de-coupling and perhaps a lowering of the tax rate.
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 03:21 PM   #177
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clear Thinker View Post
I think Poker Xanadu is right and the state will “’’keep the genie in the bottle’ by renewing the exclusivities in the compact with the tribe.” Although I too am keeping my fingers crossed that the state grants the pari-mutuels Internet poker, I do not believe that will happened. It would be perceived as a vast expansion of gaming within the state. I believe any concessions made to the pari-mutuels will be limited to de-coupling and perhaps a lowering of the tax rate.
I like to be more optimistic. Might as well try for it.

Here's a decent article on the Seminole scene:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/fl...624-story.html

IIRC, the Seminole tribe had electronic blackjack & baccarat at their casinos before they had the compact authorization for table games, on the claim that they are slot machines. Now they claim that they are table games at the pari-mutuels and therefore a violation of the compact exclusivity. Who wants their cake and eat it, too?
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2015, 10:35 PM   #178
Self Made
veteran
 
Self Made's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,005
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

They're adding poker table games like pai gow at Jacksonville Bestbet on Labor Day.
Self Made is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 05:51 PM   #179
sba9630
Pooh-Bah
 
sba9630's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: This space intentionally left blank
Posts: 4,511
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

State tells tribe: Prepare to end blackjack games at casinos [apnews.com]
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - Florida and the Seminole Tribe of Florida seem headed for a showdown about the operation of the tribe's successful casinos.

A five-year deal authorizing blackjack and other types of card games at casinos such as the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Tampa expires Friday.

The state's top gambling regulator wrote a letter to the tribe chairman Monday asking for a meeting where tribal leaders are expected to give state officials a timeline for closing down blackjack tables.
sba9630 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 07:30 PM   #180
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CheapLasVegasTrip.com
Posts: 7,940
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Yea, I am sure the tribe is hard at work preparing that timeline for them. lol
parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2015, 07:04 AM   #181
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Legislature unlikely to address gambling during August special session

Quote:
It is unlikely that the Florida Legislature will add any new discussion of extending a statewide gambling compact with the Seminole Tribe of Florida when lawmakers meets in a special session in August to deal with Congressional redistricting, a key Senate leader said Thursday.

“It is very unlikely that we would expand the call to involve anything else, especially the compact,” Senate Majority Leader Bill Galvano, R-Bradenton said.
Quote:
This week, officials from the Senate, House and governor began holding meetings in preparation for beginning new negotiations with the Tribe, said State Sen. Rob Bradley, who chairs the Senate committee with jurisdiction over the topic.

“We want to make sure we are on the same page when we sit down with the Tribe,” said Bradley, who was part of a preliminary discussion about the topic with the governor’s office on Tuesday.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2015, 09:37 AM   #182
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Florida lottery exploring ticket sales online and alongside bank machines

Quote:
The Florida Lottery is considering selling lottery tickets online or alongside ATMs to combat relatively flat sales of some of the more well-known games.

Lottery officials have asked companies seeking a contract worth at least $300 million to prove they can sell tickets on the Internet or at ATMs and gas pumps. The lottery hasn't officially announced that it are considering those changes.
I wonder if they'll offer self-limitation and self-exclusion options.

Last edited by PokerXanadu; 08-02-2015 at 09:49 AM.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2015, 04:01 PM   #183
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Stalemate between state and Seminole Tribe of Florida is thawing

Quote:
Senate Majority Leader Bill Galvano, who, as a House member was the Legislature's chief negotiator on the original compact five years ago, has maintained that Scott could enter an agreement with the tribe prior to the banked card-game deadline. Lawmakers could authorize the agreement when they return for the regular session in January, thus allowing the tribe to keep the games running without a legislative special session to ratify the compact, according to Galvano, R-Bradenton.

Specifics of the current talks remain under wraps, but the Seminoles have expressed an interest in adding roulette and craps and expanding the number of casinos — now limited to five of their seven facilities -— where they can offer banked cards. In exchange, the state would want more than the $250 million minimum annual payment now guaranteed by the tribe. Any agreement, however, would have to include some sort of "exclusivity" for the tribe, and would have to be approved by the federal government.

"The tribe obviously wants to have as much exclusivity as possible. But you also have the political realities of finding a majority of votes in both houses and you have to get the governor satisfied," Bradley said.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2015, 05:48 PM   #184
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

At least we now know who the point men are for the state, i.e., Senate Regulated Industries Chairman Rob Bradley, Scott's general counsel Tim Cerio, House Regulatory Affairs Chairman Jose Felix Diaz, R-Miami.
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2015, 08:15 PM   #185
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

I have been targeting a lot of my iPokerFlorida campaign towards Bradley, Diaz and the other legislators sitting on their committees. My big fear is that the terms of the new compact will change or remove the provision that allows the state to authorize Internet gambling to other entities in the state. Potentially that could be a disaster for the chances to get Internet poker authorized for a long time to come.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 10:07 AM   #186
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

More Movement.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/...blackjack-deal
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2015, 09:40 AM   #187
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Reading between the lines one could conclude that the Sands got word that a compact deal is imminent and its provision would prohibit destination casino resorts for an extended period of time.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/...its-in-florida

Last edited by PokerXanadu; 09-23-2015 at 02:55 PM.
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2015, 03:09 PM   #188
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clear Thinker View Post
Reading between the lines one could conclude that the Sands got word that a compact deal is imminent and its provision would prohibit destination casino resorts for an extended period of time.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/...its-in-florida
That is no doubt where the compact negotiations are headed. The remaining question is what concessions will there be for the parimutuels:

Slot machines outside of the two So. Florida counties? - little chance, imo.

Player-banked poker games for the pari-mutuel cardrooms? - probably not.

De-coupling of poker room operations from Greyhound racing? - maybe, although more likely just somewhat lower racing requirements.

Lower taxes on slots and racing? - most likely concession.

Internet poker? - doubtful, although the new compact may still have the provision that allows for it in the future. If it has such a provision, I suspect it will also say that the Seminole tribe gets it at the same time as anyone else.

I also wonder where the new compact will come in on state lottery sales on the Internet.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 07:07 AM   #189
white_lytning
grinder
 
white_lytning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 532
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Update:

The 1st DCA reversed its Gretna slots decision. They had originally ruled that if counties outside of Miami-Dade and Broward passed a referendum they could have slots but reversed that decision on Friday. I guess somebody took a minute to actually read the state constitution?

Anyway, thats a big question mark that is no longer lingering and could advance the compact negotiations. I think we could expect to hear something positive in the next week or two.

The designated player games are a whole different issue and the state's inactivity has really let them go crazy. I am surprised there hasn't been more backlash.

Poker players naturally have a tough time distinguishing their game from other forms of gambling and I'm surprised the PPA hasn't been more active in criticizing these games. Casino war clearly isn't a poker game, why let it be grouped in the same category?
white_lytning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 01:31 PM   #190
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

One of the judges that was on the original 3-judge panel retired, and a new judge came in, appointed by Scott. The court decided to rehear the case before the 3-judge panel, with the new judge replacement, instead of en blanc. The new judge came down against the pari-mutuel, thus reversing the prior decision. More here:
http://staugustine.com/news/2015-10-...s#.VhJG7rRViko

This is not the final word, though. It is likely to be heard by the State Supreme Court.

My State Senator told me last week that he doesn't think the current Seminole compact negotiations are going to get anywhere because the pari-mutuels will block the Seminoles getting what they want (continued table games exclusivity plus craps & roulette) if the pari-mutuels don't get what they want (slots). It's a stalemate, as this legislature is certainly not going to expand slots throughout the state to the pari-mutuels.

I did make my point with him that there is another solution - give Internet poker to the pari-mutuels instead of slots, which gives them the new revenue stream they need without expanding the games they currently offer (just allowing them to offer their current poker games over the Internet as well). He liked the idea. Unfortunately, I've so far been unable to convince any of the pari-mutuels that they should go for Internet poker instead of slots, or even at the same time.

Last edited by PokerXanadu; 10-06-2015 at 09:18 PM.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 04:52 PM   #191
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

If your senator is right, the Seminoles will file a suit in federal court just before the end of the month.
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 03:30 PM   #192
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Movement according to Sen. Bradley.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/...blackjack-deal
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 10:12 AM   #193
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

But, then again.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...pecial-session
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 11:10 AM   #194
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clear Thinker View Post
That's inconsequential to the compact negotiations. If an agreement is reached with the tribe, it will likely be put in place contingent on approval by the legislature at the regular legislative session next spring. The tribe will keep running their current table games and either continue to pay revenue-sharing to the state "in good faith", or put the money into escrow. They'll start the new games (if any) once the legislature and feds give approval to the new compact. I don't see the legislature calling a special session between now and the spring to approve the compact because it will be tied in with any other gambling legislation that will be proposed - by the pari-mutuels, etc. Too complex to deal with just in a short special session.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 12:22 PM   #195
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

The question is if they will reach a deal by October 29.
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 03:58 PM   #196
Clear Thinker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Latest

http://m.palmbeachpost.com/news/news...kennel-/nn2sn/
Clear Thinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 04:34 PM   #197
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,389
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clear Thinker View Post
Just more of the same, really. Interesting to see some specifics of what they are trying to hobble together, but I'd put the chances of such a deal making it past all the hurdles through the legislature pretty darn low (let alone through the compact negotiation itself).
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:13 PM   #198
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CheapLasVegasTrip.com
Posts: 7,940
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

SEMINOLE TRIBE REFUSES TO TAKE DOWN BLACKJACK TABLES

"Thursday marked the last day of a 90-day window the Tribe had to remove card games after the expiration of its deal for exclusive rights to blackjack in Florida.

The Tribe’s lawyers, however, previously made clear it had no intent to discontinue the games."

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/...ackjack-tables
parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2015, 10:52 AM   #199
sba9630
Pooh-Bah
 
sba9630's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: This space intentionally left blank
Posts: 4,511
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Gambling operators see red over prohibition on card games [sayfiereview.com]

Many of the operators told the regulators at Wednesday's hearing that the wildly popular new games have overshadowed other poker games, such as Texas Hold 'Em. Cardroom revenues had flattened until the introduction of the designated-player games, they said.

The designated-player games also provide a less intimidating option for card players, the operators said.

"Traditional poker is dying," Magic City Vice President Alex Havenick told The News Service of Florida on Wednesday afternoon. "The fad has run out."

(emphasis added).
sba9630 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2015, 08:27 PM   #200
white_lytning
grinder
 
white_lytning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 532
Re: Florida gambling & poker: laws, regulations and politics.

Yeah. IMO there is something going on with the Compact negotiations that is forcing the regulators to actually do something about the casino games that have been popping up lately. Its funny to see these guys call 3-Card Poker and Casino War "poker" games. It will be fun to watch the blow out if they ever make good on these proposed rules.

I'm actually kind of surprised the PPA or other poker groups haven't gotten involved to separate themselves from that stuff.

In a related story, on Tuesday the state Supreme Court agreed to hear the Gretna Slots case.
white_lytning is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online