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Old 03-23-2014, 10:37 AM   #76
PokerXanadu
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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Originally Posted by totaltool View Post
As mentioned a couple posts earlier, do you think there's any chance that online gambling (or at least online poker) could get negotiated in new compact with the Seminoles for 2015 and beyond?
No.

The current compact gives the tribe a discount on revenue-sharing if ipoker is authorized in FL and it causes a drop in tribal casino gaming revenue below a certain level. I don't forsee the new compact granting the tribes the right to offer ipoker as this would be considered gambling expansion, something reserved to legislative action - and unlikely to gain the approval of the legislature.

I think the current clause in the compact would be carried over to the new one, and I could even see a clause included which grants the tribe the right to participate in ipoker if it is authorized for anyone else (although unlikely).

BTW, I took a look at HJR 7151, the legislation to make all future gambling expansion subject to voter referendum in FL. Gambling is defined in the legislation as any gaming that is classified as Class III under IGRA. Interestingly, this means that future expansion of live poker - such as decoupling from pari-mutuel racing or expansion of licensing to other facilities - would not be subject to voter referendum as live poker is classified in IGRA as Class II.

This also begs the question of whether authorization of ipoker in FL would require a voter referendum (if HJR 7151 passes). The base issue would be is ipoker Class II or Class III gaming. This has been discussed in PL extensively before, and I did concede that it is Class III. However, this is based on a NIGC rule, not strictly on statutory language or court interpretation. It is conceivable that a legal challenge to the rule, or even just a request for a new ruling, could change the rule to put ipoker into Class II gaming. So, there would still be a few doors open to ipoker in FL.

As a final note, consider this: There are two legislative efforts advancing this year in the FL legislature - a bill to establish a new gambling commission to take over regulation of all FL gambling (except the lottery), and possibly to authorize two destination casino resorts in S FL; and the resolution to make all future gambling expansion subject to voter referendum. What happens if both pass (and I'm sure that if the bill passes, then the resolution will be passed) and then the governor vetoes the bill but not the resolution?

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Old 03-25-2014, 12:19 PM   #77
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Thanks for the detailed reply, PX. Your insights are always great. Please let me know if there's anything else I can do in FL to help
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:06 PM   #78
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Although I agree with you PX that there isn't really a chance it happens I disagree with your reading of the compact. First, they can amend the thing how ever they want and second the online poker section has two parts. The way I read it, the payments only get reduced if online gaming happens and there is a net loss in the Seminole gaming revenue, which I doubt would happen as a result of online poker.


In other news, it looks like everything is kind of on hold until the Governor re-negotiates. The senate has rescheduled some meetings and the house isn't going anywhere atm. It would be nice if this stuff gets settled sooner than later but I doubt that will happen.

It might be worth noting that there was an amendment to the Senate bill to add a half-assed ADW bill on Monday. It would be nice if another senator did the same to add online poker.

I'm still expecting a gaming commission and a reorganization of the gaming laws to put everything into 551 but I doubt destination casinos or anything related to online poker goes through.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:24 AM   #79
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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Originally Posted by white_lytning View Post
Although I agree with you PX that there isn't really a chance it happens I disagree with your reading of the compact. First, they can amend the thing how ever they want and second the online poker section has two parts. The way I read it, the payments only get reduced if online gaming happens and there is a net loss in the Seminole gaming revenue, which I doubt would happen as a result of online poker.
That's what I said, too:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerxanadu
The current compact gives the tribe a discount on revenue-sharing if ipoker is authorized in FL and it causes a drop in tribal casino gaming revenue below a certain level.
I realize they can amend the compact however they want. However, it would still have to be ratified by the state legislature. My point is that I don't think the legislature would approve a new compact which included authorization of ipoker in FL for the tribe. That would be both an expansion of gambling in FL (opposed by conservative legislators) and a risk to pari-mutuel revenues (opposed by legislators with pari-mutuels in their district). So I don't foresee ipoker authorization coming into play as part of the new compact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white_lytning[/B
]In other news, it looks like everything is kind of on hold until the Governor re-negotiates. The senate has rescheduled some meetings and the house isn't going anywhere atm. It would be nice if this stuff gets settled sooner than later but I doubt that will happen.
Yep. But what do you expect to happen if the re-negotiations aren't completed before the end of this legislative session? Do you think the bills will advance this year anyway, or be put off until next year?

Quote:
It might be worth noting that there was an amendment to the Senate bill to add a half-assed ADW bill on Monday. It would be nice if another senator did the same to add online poker.
I've been watching the language of ADW legislation. This "half-assed" version is the first time that I've seen it written such that technically ipoker could be slipped in as authorized as a pari-mutuel ADW wager. I wonder if any of the pari-mutuel facilities would have the cajones to try it.

This ADW amendment was filed, but not yet voted on and passed by the Senate committee, right?

Quote:
I'm still expecting a gaming commission and a reorganization of the gaming laws to put everything into 551 but I doubt destination casinos or anything related to online poker goes through.
Pretty much my expectation as well, although I think it might be put off until next year, depending on the speed of completion of the new Seminole compact. Or it might be put off anyway, since this is an election year.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:57 PM   #80
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Just for ease of writing and reading I'm gonna try to respond to each point but will be more general than re-posting the actual quote.

I had a few beers yesterday when I responded and was maybe a little harsh on the ADW amendment (and admittedly misread your post about the online gaming part of the compact, sry -- we are in agreement there). I call it half-assed because it just is. I could have used a better word; lazy, uninformed, poorly written. I don't know. It just looks like there was very little effort put into that amendment. I have researched and read a lot about ADW in the last few months and I feel like I understand how it works in the state probably better than almost anyone else and it just annoys me that the people making these laws, like Margolis, don't understand the issues they are regulating. I'm new to politics and how the legislature works and have struggled to accept how things really work now that I am watching it so closely.

Yes, the amendment was simply filed on Monday. Although it is pretty much an exact copy of a proposed bill introduced earlier this year that to my knowledge never went anywhere or was even formally introduced.

I agree with you that the language in the amendment could be read positively for online poker but I don't believe its clear enough that a company would want to initiate any kind of large investment into it without clarification.

If the compact negotiations don't get completed before the session ends I don't think anything major will happen this year. I have nothing objective to base this opinion on I just feel like without direction from the governor the legislature won't act. There have been so many mixed messages since January about what will and won't happen. With the upcoming gubernatorial election the parties are going to be taking direction from their party leaders more than usual and I don't see gaming as something that would swing the election in one way or the other.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:16 AM   #81
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Gambling overhaul? It’s on ‘life support,’ lawmaker says

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A long-expected statewide gambling overhaul is on “life support” in the Legislature, according to the chair of the Florida Senate’s gambling committee.

But Garrett Richter, the Naples Republican who also is the Senate president pro tempore, Wednesday night said that he still holds out the proverbial glimmer of hope.

“But the compact is the key,” Richter said, referring to the Seminole Compact, a gambling revenue-sharing deal between the Seminole Tribe and the state that must be renegotiated.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:11 PM   #82
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Gambling chairman tells Senate no reform this year

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A statewide gambling overhaul moved from life support to dead on arrival in the Legislature, judging by remarks Thursday by the chairman of the Senate’s gambling committee.

“Recently, it has become very apparent that unless the governor negotiates a new compact with the Seminole Tribe, there won’t be any comprehensive reform legislation this year,” the chairman, Naples Republican Garrett Richter, said on the floor of the Senate.

The Seminole Compact is a gambling revenue-sharing deal between the Seminole Tribe and the state that must be renegotiated by next year.

Any legislative fixes affecting gambling would have to take into account the many millions the state gets from the Seminoles’ gambling profits, Richter said.

“If we put the gaming reform cart in front of the Seminole Compact horse, we run the risk of getting policies at cross-purposes,” he said.

Richter’s comments followed an interview he gave to Tribune/Scripps on Wednesday night, in which he described gambling legislation as being on “life support.”
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:35 PM   #83
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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Originally Posted by schlucky1 View Post
Seems like Scott is buddies with Adelson. Looks like Scott may have to go before we have any chance.
Yep. He came out for a ban in FL alone and for an Adelson-style national ban: https://twitter.com/FLGovScott/statu...93195199225856
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:30 PM   #84
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Yep. He came out for a ban in FL alone and for an Adelson-style national ban: https://twitter.com/FLGovScott/statu...93195199225856
He has to go in November. I will do my best to help with efforts to get him out this election.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:12 PM   #85
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Re: No Senate Bill this year.

Just want to add some of my own speculation and am interested in what some of you with more experience in state politics think (PX specifically).

As others have said, online poker is a no-go but IMO the Senate bill dying isn't necessarily the end of gaming reform in Florida this session. The House bill is much more moderate and getting rid of the Senate bill, that included the destination casinos, may have been done as part of the compact negotiations. I have no evidence to support it, just looking at the timing of things.

I personally don't believe the stuff that is getting leaked about the compact negotiations not getting anywhere or not happening. Too much money at stake for the Governor to just let it go during an election. The timing of the removal, so early into session, right as news about the compact negotiations being hampered, and the specifics of the Senate bill compared to the House bill make my spider senses tingle. It just seems like there is more to this than what is being released.

I'm still sticking to my guns. There will be a major gaming overhaul this session. It looks like destination casinos are out, as is online poker but I don't see nothing (yes, double negative) happening. There was something on the schedule today about the decoupling bill that I didn't get to watch but it sounded like one of the committees was very interested in the impact of the bill = they are still thinking about changes.

Could be my unfounded optimism or ignorance to the system but I'm still seeing a chance.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #86
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

According to the last couple newspaper articles it is the FL House Speaker who has conditioned advancement of the gambling legislation on completion of the Seminole compact. The current compact terms don't expire until August 1, 2015, so the Governor has plenty of time to renegotiate it. I figure there won't be any gambling bills forwarded this year in FL, but they'll get to it next year, by which time a new compact will be in place. OTOH, since the compact has to get FL Congressional approval, there could be a special session convened sometime during the year where both the compact and some gambling legislation are taken up. It's just hard to imagine, given the opportunity, that the legislators won't push the gambling legislation off until after this year's election. There's no risk politically in doing that, while there is at least some risk in voting on legislation before the election.

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Old 04-04-2014, 08:21 PM   #87
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Anyone know where Charlie Crist stands on online poker?
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:01 AM   #88
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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Anyone know where Charlie Crist stands on online poker?
Hard to say exactly. However, the issue was included in the compact he negotiated with the Seminoles, allowing for authorization of intrastate online poker (if it is authorized and the tribal gaming revenues subsequently drop by 5% or more, revenue-sharing obligations from the tribe are lowered). I think this is an indication that he would sign a bill if it reached his desk as Governor. Unless, of course, he decides to become a Republican again and to woo Sheldon Adelson. In other words, pretty much whatever suits his political career at the time. He's the commensurate career politician.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:04 AM   #89
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

The FL Senate Committee on Gaming will have a meeting on Tuesday, April 8th, 1pm, regarding SB742, requiring reporting of greyhound dog injuries by pari-mutuels. I expect they will take up the amendment introduced on Friday to de-couple greyhound racing from cardroom operations.

If the amendment is adopted and the bill passes, greyhound tracks will no longer be obligated to run any live races to maintain their state permit, and there will be no requirement to hold live races in order to operate their cardrooms (or slot machines, in the case of the S FL tracks). In essence, this means that most of the greyhound tracks in the state will become exclusively cardrooms (and slots in S FL) and off-track wagering facilities. It would likely lead to expansion of the poker operations in many locations.

Meeting notice (PDF): http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/S...ingNotice/2676

Senate Committee on Gaming: http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/Show/GM/
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:46 PM   #90
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Senate bill to loosen rules on dog-track gaming stalls

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Some Florida legislators are making a push again this year to end a requirement that greyhound dog-tracks have on-site races if they want to keep card games and other betting options.

But despite the support of top lawmakers and the wife of Senate President Don Gaetz, the proposal stalled in a Senate committee on Tuesday.

Instead, the panel passed a stripped-down bill that requires dog tracks around the state to report all injuries to racing greyhounds.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:35 AM   #91
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Gambling bills are off the table, House speaker says

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House Speaker Will Weatherford put a lid on any gambling legislation this session, including a proposal that would require tracks to report greyhound injuries and deaths.

"I would say at this point the lights are out," Weatherford, R-Wesley Chapel, told The News Service of Florida on Wednesday afternoon.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:21 PM   #92
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.


Gov. Rick Scott's negotiations with Seminole Tribe could be blueprint for gaming's future


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Gov. Rick Scott, who made a career out of negotiating hospital mergers, is now applying his negotiating skills to a deal with the Seminole Tribe that could singlehandedly dictate the future of gaming in Florida.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:04 AM   #93
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

What a bunch of crap. Right now, I feel like we will never get online poker in FL.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:52 PM   #94
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Decoupling failed to get passed Senate Appropriations today.

This session has just been a giant let down.
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:19 AM   #95
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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So is this for online gaming or Casino gaming? Can I get cliffs?
It's for online poker, and for resort casinos, and for de-coupling poker rooms from parimutuel racing, in FL.

Cliffs:
No bill advanced this year. Maybe next year.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:39 PM   #96
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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What a bunch of crap. Right now, I feel like we will never get online poker in FL.
same with most other Jesus states...
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:19 AM   #97
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Gaming talks with Seminoles likely stuck until November vote
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TALLAHASSEE — As this year’s legislative session wound to a close, representatives of Gov. Rick Scott and the Seminole Tribe of Florida just couldn’t see eye-to-eye on a new gambling-revenue sharing agreement.

They were getting nowhere close to a deal, according to the tribe’s outside attorney in Tallahassee, so they left the table. And they haven’t been back since lawmakers left town in May.

“I don’t think anybody thumbed their noses at anybody else, but I know it was unsuccessful,” said Barry Richard, the attorney and a shareholder at the Greenberg Traurig law firm.
Quote:
“There’s only one ‘issue’ right now: Winning re-election,” said Darryl Paulson, a retired professor of government at the University of South Florida St. Petersburg.

Scott isn’t likely to negotiate a deal that pleases everyone, he said.

“So, in many respects, he’s probably better off just going ahead with his single focus on jobs and the economy and hoping that’s the key to re-election,” Paulson said.
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Old 08-03-2014, 01:44 PM   #98
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Which candidate would be more likely to sponsor online poker legislation?
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:13 PM   #99
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

Perhaps a trip (or five) to the King Ranch could grease the politicians wheels. [tampabay.com]
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:24 AM   #100
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Re: Floridians, its time to be active. Let the legislature know how you feel.

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Which candidate would be more likely to sponsor online poker legislation?
Neither TBH. Allegedly Scott has shown support for Adelsons' efforts against online gaming and Christ hasn't made any comments to the contrary (that I am aware of). Like PX said in one of the earlier comments, Scott included the topic of online gaming in the original compact but with an update to the compact expected after the election its really not clear whats going to happen. The best thing you can do is contact your local reps and let them know what you want.
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