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Legislation for Poker & Income Taxes for Poker Players Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 08-18-2010, 10:54 PM   #1276
Skallagrim
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
It's only a short break, but judging from http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...51ca7be8?pli=1, I think he's seeking a longer term one.
Have you read the replies to his post about his temporary banning in this link?

Only one mentions the banning (and says accept it as a badge of pride), the rest discuss his failure (at least so far) to pay off after losing a very public bet.

The only thing that really concerns me is Former DJ's (FDJ) continued posting of incorrect FACTS (some would call them lies). While I am confident the vast majority of folks who browse this forum don't take anything at face value, I do admit that I worry that a careless reader could take one of FDJ's incorrect statements and repeat it (not realizing the statement is total BS because FDJ is very experienced at putting lipstick on pigs).

Even this wouldn't lead me to advocate a ban if it was infrequent. But FDJ repeats his lies verbatim EVEN AFTER being corrected. And he does it in new threads or after several pages, and so the correction is not readily apparent. At a certain point repetition of the Same Ole S*** over and over is grounds for a ban irrespective of the content (or lack thereof).

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Old 08-18-2010, 11:04 PM   #1277
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by PokerXanadu View Post
+1. Now I think he should be banned - permanently. He turned this (my only and entire post on the subject):

into this (direct quote from his post on rec.gambling.poker linked by TE above):

This is an obvious and blatant lie. I never declared he was the fired employee, never used the word "proof" and never wrote "a liar and a fraud". He is a bad hat (put in mild terms). Get rid of him.
I suspect his posting career here will be coming to a close in the very near term.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:06 PM   #1278
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
Have you read the replies to his post about his temporary banning in this link?

Only one mentions the banning (and says accept it as a badge of pride), the rest discuss his failure (at least so far) to pay off after losing a very public bet.
My understanding is that FDJ has no credibility on RGP. The fact that only one person responded to his accusations lends credence to that.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:16 PM   #1279
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

I just skimmed that link. It seems that both Alan and his opinions are well respected everywhere. He kind of reminds me of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former DJ View Post
...
Just to clear things up, TE didn't set out to ban you, I and a few other posters did. I was trying to find the latest predictions on when the bill might be passing (and when I might be moving) and trying to wade through all your trolling and all the discussion about your trolling was pissing me off. I'm sure others had their own reasons.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:55 PM   #1280
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

So now he's also a welcher and refuses to pay a $50 bet.
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:14 AM   #1281
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

OK, starting after this post, can we get back to discussion of HR2267, and not of the late Former DJ plzkthxbye?
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:29 PM   #1282
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

So I'm not seeing much in the media this week regarding Hr2267. Hopefully things can pick up next month. I just want it to be passed or not, but we have to sit around all this time and wait.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:08 PM   #1283
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by sluggger5x View Post
So I'm not seeing much in the media this week regarding Hr2267. Hopefully things can pick up next month. I just want it to be passed or not, but we have to sit around all this time and wait.
Congress is not in session. No choice but to sit and wait.
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Old 08-19-2010, 06:40 PM   #1284
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
October is a month to watch as well.
hint hint wink wink?
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:02 PM   #1285
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

I have contacted Rep. Gerlach (on the Financial Services committee, I live in his district) numerous times. Today, I received this e-mail from him, probably due to the message I sent him thanking him for his vote:

Quote:
Dear jamzfive:

Thank you for contacting me with your support for H.R. 2267. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your comments.

As you may know, H.R. 2267, the proposed Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act, would establish a Federal licensing program, administered by the Treasury Department, under which Internet gambling companies could lawfully operate and accept bets or wagers from individuals located in the United States, to the extent permitted by individual states and Indian tribes.

The House Financial Services Committee, of which I am a Member, recently considered this bill on July 29th. I am happy to let you know that I joined my colleagues in supporting this bill and it was ordered to be reported out of the Committee by a bipartisan vote of 41 22. House Leadership has indicated that it might be possible that this bill will see additional action later this year. Please know that I will keep you updated on its progress.

Again, thank you for contacting me with you support for this legislation. If I can be of assistance to you or your family in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.

With kind regards, I am

Sincerely,

Jim Gerlach
Member of Congress
jb
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:13 PM   #1286
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Anyone wanna take a crack at this? I was discussing it with a friend.

What will online poker be like in 1 year?

3 years?

5 years?

10 years?
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:20 AM   #1287
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggger5x View Post
Anyone wanna take a crack at this? I was discussing it with a friend.

What will online poker be like in 1 year?

3 years?

5 years?

10 years?
Thanks for the encouragement. I've already been mulling this one over for a week or so. Maybe I'll give it a shot now, but in a new thread I think.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:46 AM   #1288
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

im sure this has been answered before, and i feel dumb asking, but i wouldnt even know where to start looking.

what will happen to online poker between HR 2267 passing and the sites getting licenses? theres a period of several months before sites get their licenses, will the UIGEA keep strangling online poker or would they just roll it back?

also, if they roll it back, we would see a situation very similar to pre 2006 amirite?
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:34 AM   #1289
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by kikadell View Post
im sure this has been answered before, and i feel dumb asking, but i wouldnt even know where to start looking.

what will happen to online poker between HR 2267 passing and the sites getting licenses? theres a period of several months before sites get their licenses, will the UIGEA keep strangling online poker or would they just roll it back?

also, if they roll it back, we would see a situation very similar to pre 2006 amirite?
The Menedez bill includes provisions that allow current sites to operate during the period between passage of the bill and granting of their license. The final bill may look a bit different, but there is likely to be some accomodation for this.

If you haven't yet, take a read here: The UIGEA and Federal Licensing Bills FAQ
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:35 AM   #1290
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggger5x View Post
Anyone wanna take a crack at this? I was discussing it with a friend.

What will online poker be like in 1 year?

3 years?

5 years?

10 years?
Done: The Future of iPoker in the US
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:42 PM   #1291
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Former DJ's confirmed lying is quite interesting. Even more interesting is his nonchalance about the issue, as if lying is a routine thing for him. He's even surprised it was mentioned at all. That says everything I need to know about his character.
Wow...he's completely lost his mind. This is a direct link to a post in the previously mentioned thread. Figured you guys would get a kick out of this. Seems like someone has a bit of an issue with me:

http://www.recgroups.com/a/1/1524030/

I don't blame him really, I'm kind of a jerk. Enjoy!

Morphy
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Old 08-21-2010, 01:17 AM   #1292
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaQ Morphy View Post
Wow...he's completely lost his mind. This is a direct link to a post in the previously mentioned thread. Figured you guys would get a kick out of this. Seems like someone has a bit of an issue with me:

http://www.recgroups.com/a/1/1524030/

I don't blame him really, I'm kind of a jerk. Enjoy!

Morphy
He's even more verbose on RGP.
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Old 08-21-2010, 05:31 AM   #1293
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

so once this is passed you think rigged poker will be a past tense thing, and never heard of again?

Just curious what people think, because a lot of people think this is the case. I wish bills wouldn't take so so long to get passed. And it's gotta get passed before january if I'm not mistaken, otherwise they hit the reset button on the nintendo.
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Old 08-21-2010, 06:17 AM   #1294
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by druminfected View Post
so once this is passed you think rigged poker will be a past tense thing, and never heard of again?
people will use any excuse to explain why they dont win.

its already an irrational position to take, why would peoples irrationality change?
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Old 08-21-2010, 11:44 AM   #1295
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

What is with the flame wars in this thread??? It makes me sick to read it. Why don't you guys just relax? FormerDJ can post his opinions if he wants. It seems like the PPA board members/PPA shills here just want to scare away/discredit any opposition or disagreement. It is ok for people to have different opinions. I don't support banning of FDJ. Good arguments have been made on both sides. I am sure you all will try to say, its all been said over and over. Yah the same things have been said over and over on BOTH sides, so why should the PPA authoritarian side be listed over and over quelling/demonizing/flaming any opposition or disagreement? PPA should listen to disagreements and try to show that they understand the concerns. I am sure others may feel the same but are scared away from posting, so it is a good scare tactic and information controlling tool to flame people away or ban them when they don't go along with your ideology. Why are people asking why FDJ is posting?? Leave him alone. Did it ever occur to you he cares about his online freedoms and wants his voice heard?? Frankly just reading this thread makes the PPA look bad.

Anyways just my 2 cents, flame wars just aren't cool, and it makes me have less respect for the PPA, and not want to donate, call my congressman, or e-mail them about the upcoming Bills. It just seems that the PPA will not seek its memberships input or take it seriously. Instead I think they will just tell us what we want, and I don't like that.
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:25 PM   #1296
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

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Originally Posted by RainMan77 View Post
What is with the flame wars in this thread??? It makes me sick to read it. Why don't you guys just relax? FormerDJ can post his opinions if he wants...
I agree with you - flame wars are shameful and opposing opinions are welcome for discussion. However, FDJ did not engage in discussion. He attacked posters personally with nearly every post. When his vitriole was ignored and his opinions debated, he ignored such debate and instead misquoted, lied and engaged in flaming. Over and over. He was warned, he was temporarily banned and finally evoked the ire of many regular posters here. No regulars here flame or call for a ban for opposing opinions. It was all the other stuff that dug his hole.
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:56 PM   #1297
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu View Post
I agree with you - flame wars are shameful and opposing opinions are welcome for discussion. However, FDJ did not engage in discussion. He attacked posters personally with nearly every post. When his vitriole was ignored and his opinions debated, he ignored such debate and instead misquoted, lied and engaged in flaming. Over and over. He was warned, he was temporarily banned and finally evoked the ire of many regular posters here. No regulars here flame or call for a ban for opposing opinions. It was all the other stuff that dug his hole.
+1

Rainman also said: "so why should the PPA authoritarian side be listed over and over quelling/demonizing/flaming any opposition or disagreement? PPA should listen to disagreements and try to show that they understand the concerns"

PPA is the least authoritarian organization I have ever been a part of. No one is ever shut up. It seems to me you have reading comprehension problems if you can't see that the PPA is listening to disagreement; is trying to understand the source of concern; and is responding with the reasons that it takes the position it does. This is what most of this thread (other than direct news and information) has been about. Its also what fed the FDJ troll for so long that virtually no one could stand it any longer.

Rainmann77, do a search for posts by LetsGambool or LeapFrog and you will see the handful of legitimate concerns present within FDJ's trolling better presented and fully discussed without flaming. Search for TruePoker CEO posts and you will again see vibrant criticism of the PPA discussed. No one has ever called for any of those posters to be banned. If after comparing the posts you still can't see a difference then I suspect there is no way to explain it to you.

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Old 08-21-2010, 04:10 PM   #1298
Rich Muny
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMan77 View Post
What is with the flame wars in this thread??? It makes me sick to read it. Why don't you guys just relax? FormerDJ can post his opinions if he wants. It seems like the PPA board members/PPA shills here just want to scare away/discredit any opposition or disagreement. It is ok for people to have different opinions.
Yes, FDJ can post his opinions. He has posted his opinions here, over and over. We can post our opinions as well, including our opinions of his opinions.

Quote:
I don't support banning of FDJ.
This forum is not a free-for-all. FDJ was temp-banned for failing to follow the rules of the forum. He's back now and will be permitted to stay for as long as he can follow the forum rules.

Here's the deal:
  1. We cannot post complaints when we receive infractions from forum mods. If we don't like mod decisions, we can escalate these concerns to the admins. I provided FDJ with details on how to do that. He chose not to avail himself of those opportunities, instead complaining here. I PM-warned him once, infracted him the second time, and temp-banned him the third time.
  2. Posters can post theories on whatever they want, but we need to phrase them as just that -- theories. If we don't have proof, we cannot post, "Group X is secretly taking money from company A to harm company B." Rather, we need to post, "Is Group X secretly taking money from company A to harm company B?" or "Does anyone think Group X is secretly taking money from company A to harm company B?". With proof, we can write, "Group X is secretly taking money from company A to harm company B and here's the proof."
  3. We cannot post personal attacks here.
  4. We cannot be intentionally argumentative.
These are not special FDJ rules. These are the rules for the community.

Quote:
Yah the same things have been said over and over on BOTH sides, so why should the PPA authoritarian side be listed over and over quelling/demonizing/flaming any opposition or disagreement? PPA should listen to disagreements and try to show that they understand the concerns.
This isn't the PPA forum. This is the Two Plus Two Poker Legislation Forum. I do not mod on behalf of PPA. I mod at the pleasure of Mason, Mat, and Two Plus Two ownership.

Think of it this way. If I bought a gallon of milk this morning, it wouldn't be, "the PPA bought a gallon of milk." It would be ME buying some milk. Forum moderation is the same. PPA has nothing to do with my forum modding.

Last edited by Rich Muny; 08-21-2010 at 10:55 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-21-2010, 04:22 PM   #1299
Rich Muny
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu View Post
I agree with you - flame wars are shameful and opposing opinions are welcome for discussion. However, FDJ did not engage in discussion. He attacked posters personally with nearly every post. When his vitriole was ignored and his opinions debated, he ignored such debate and instead misquoted, lied and engaged in flaming. Over and over. He was warned, he was temporarily banned and finally evoked the ire of many regular posters here. No regulars here flame or call for a ban for opposing opinions. It was all the other stuff that dug his hole.
+1

The quote thing is HUGE problem. Let's say someone posts the following:
  • Skallagrim said, "xxxxx"
The person making that post better be able to prove Skall said or wrote that exact text. I guess FDJ is now claiming ignorance on not understanding what quotation marks actually do.
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Old 08-21-2010, 09:16 PM   #1300
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Re: HR 2267 Markup (Passed 41-22-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMan77 View Post
What is with the flame wars in this thread??? It makes me sick to read it. Why don't you guys just relax? FormerDJ can post his opinions if he wants. It seems like the PPA board members/PPA shills here just want to scare away/discredit any opposition or disagreement. It is ok for people to have different opinions. I don't support banning of FDJ. Good arguments have been made on both sides. I am sure you all will try to say, its all been said over and over. Yah the same things have been said over and over on BOTH sides, so why should the PPA authoritarian side be listed over and over quelling/demonizing/flaming any opposition or disagreement? PPA should listen to disagreements and try to show that they understand the concerns. I am sure others may feel the same but are scared away from posting, so it is a good scare tactic and information controlling tool to flame people away or ban them when they don't go along with your ideology. Why are people asking why FDJ is posting?? Leave him alone. Did it ever occur to you he cares about his online freedoms and wants his voice heard?? Frankly just reading this thread makes the PPA look bad.

Anyways just my 2 cents, flame wars just aren't cool, and it makes me have less respect for the PPA, and not want to donate, call my congressman, or e-mail them about the upcoming Bills. It just seems that the PPA will not seek its memberships input or take it seriously. Instead I think they will just tell us what we want, and I don't like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Yes, FDJ can post his opinions. He has posted his opinions here, over and over. We can post our opinions as well, including our opinions of his opinions.



This forum is not a free-for-all. FDJ was temp-banned for failing to follow the rules of the forum. He's back now and will be permitted to stay for as long as he can follow the forum rules.

Here's the deal:
  1. We cannot post complaints when we receive infractions from forum mods. If we don't like mod decisions, we can escalate these concerns to the admins. I provided FDJ with details on how to do that. He chose not to avail himself of those opportunities, instead complaining here. I PM-warned him once, infracted him the second time, and temp-banned him the third time.
  2. Posters can post theories on whatever they want, but we need to phrase them as just that -- theories. If we don't have proof, we cannot post, "Group X is secretly taking money from company A to harm company B." Rather, we needs to post, "Is Group X secretly taking money from company A to harm company B?" or "Does anyone think Group X is secretly taking money from company A to harm company B?". With proof, we can write, "Group X is secretly taking money from company A to harm company B and here's the proof."
  3. We cannot post personal attacks here.
  4. We cannot be intentionally argumentative.
These are not special FDJ rules. These are the rules for the community.



This isn't the PPA forum. This is the Two Plus Two Poker Legislation Forum. I do not mod on behalf of PPA. I mod at the pleasure of Mason, Mat, and Two Plus Two ownership.

Think of it this way. If I bought a gallon of milk this morning, it wouldn't be, "the PPA bought a gallon of milk." It would be ME buying some milk. Forum moderation is the same. PPA has nothing to do with my forum modding.
This is essentially why he was booted. I am one of the non-PPA and non-legal expert folks who called for him to be shown the door. I read through his opinions for weeks, and while they seemed valid at first, he kept posting the same long-winded conspiracy claims and at the same time insulting other posters. When asked to validate his conspiracy claims he simply reposted them or posted more insults.

I eventually put him on my ignore list, but he kept posting and others kept responding to him, and it was impossible to tell if someone had posted some pertinent information or if it was Former DJ posting his usual flames.

I don't agree with everything that the PPA does, and I am sure that I am not the only one. I support their efforts, though, and I don't make wild claims and then insult people when asked to provide proof. Such behavior should not be tolerated here.
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