Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
A slightly different case regarding taxes A slightly different case regarding taxes

03-09-2010 , 05:15 PM
Hello,

Allow me to introduce myself, as myself. This is my very first post on 2+2, however I have been actively visiting this site for the past few months reading through various forums and threads started by members. I also apologize for the length of this post. I am merely constructing as much viable information as possible.

To the point. I live with a fairly profitable MTT player (Who is now on a terrible downswing for the past 6 months ironically - but that's another story, another time) who I have basically been learning off of for the past eight months. August 29th '09 I final tabled the 40k on FTP. Awesome, really made me feel great about playing poker. August 30th (A Sunday), I binked 2nd place in the Double Deuce for quite the five figure score. Life altering, to say the very least.

Before anyone goes off on thinking about how ridiculously lucky I am, some noob who binked a huge score, trash, amazing, or beautiful, allow me to clarify one thing. I am stupid. Beyond belief stupid, especially in how I treated the money I won.

Back to my story. I continue to play poker only to intensify my insatiable hunger for another huge score (yeah that will be quite some time, maybe never?). I run well in some tournaments, continue to make some four digit cashes. I feel great, and I'm only getting better with making these cashes all on my own decisions with no help from my roommate. New found skill? Or am I running hot? Probably more so the latter, I hope a mix of both.

Sunday November 15th '09, I place 2nd in the $24k GTD on Full Tilt. My second five digit score, which most players who put in way more time, effort, money, pain, and anguish only dream for. I really am running hot.

That was the last huge score I had. I have had one or two other decent cashes since then. I say decent only in respect to the two large cashes I have made. It's a terrible comparison, I know. My concept of money was altered during this time period.

Now is when you guys / gals are going to belittle me, rape me, tell me how stupid I am, wish me dead but I don't care. This is what I deserve, because I know I handled the situation terribly.

I am unemployed. I have been unemployed since Spring '09 (a choice decided by a desire to focus on studies). I worked under the table during the summer for a farm, with none of my wage being taxed. This is not my problem, I am only providing background which I think is necessary for the most accurate advice. I was a full time student in the fall academic semester of '09. This semester I am only registered part-time, since I am so close to the completion of my degree.

Try not to cry now...

According to the PokerDB:
MTT, HU, SATs, and MT-SNG combined:

~$59k in total winnings
~$24k in total buy ins
~$2.1k in total rake
~$31k in total profit


I have not kept a single log of any poker session. My hand history folder extends back to mid January for the sake I had to reformat my computer due to a blue screen. I have played primarily MTTs since I started. However, as much greed and corruption there is inside of me, I did in the beginning play some cash games. I am completely unaware of how much I won / lost during these random cash sessions. I have absolutely no way of reconstructing these sessions.

In fact, I do not even have the Microsoft Suite installed on my computer, let alone Microsoft Excel.

I have an account with the PokerDB. I am able to retrieve the results of as many as 572 tournaments pretty much since August. I am under the presumption however, this is not an entirely accurate database. I am however reluctant to say, this is probably my best source of information regarding my tournament play. Right?

I have PokerTracker downloaded, and have imported all hand histories into the database since mid January.

I've been reading quite a bit recently on how to go about filing my taxes. As I am not completely naive, there are a few major questions which I hope some of you could help me answer.

1. Since being unemployed with no other source of income, do I file as a professional?

- I was under the impression if I do not plan to have poker be my main source of income for say, the next five years, it would be best to mark amateur. I can attest to the fact I intend poker to not be my career or primary source of income. I plan to use it, if possible, as a secondary source of income.

2. Do I file as an amateur?
-This is what I believe I should do.

3. What the hell do I do about recreating logs? I hope to god I am not the first person who has royally ****ed up big time when it comes to money.

4. Any quick tips or suggestions?

I am meeting with a CPA on Thursday here in Philadelphia to discuss my possible tax form. I am not under the impression the wo/man I am meeting is familiar with a poker player's situation. However, they will probably be able to point me in the right direction of one, or to the extent of their knowledge, help me.

Since it's already too much to ask, I'll ask anyways. Does anyone know a qualified accountant in the downtown Philadelphia region who is capable of answering questions for me?

Thank you very much.

*Braces for impact*
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote
03-09-2010 , 07:22 PM
I'm not a tax pro, but am willing to give you my advice. Take it or leave it.

You don't have to intend poker to be your main income in future years for you to file as a professional for 2009. Did you play to support yourself? If so, you were a pro for the year.

To get the records of your sessions necessary to file taxes, ask the FTP support desk to send you your hand and account histories. I don't know exactly what they provide, but I'm sure you can get everything you need to reconstruct all your session wins and losses. Tell them what you need and see what they will provide. Someone else can probably pipe in with more specifics about FTP.

If you need a program necessary to read the files you will get, then obtain one. You can get a full suite of office programs that are compatible with Microsoft for free from openoffice.org
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote
03-10-2010 , 11:53 AM
This isn't really that different a case than usual. I'm also not a tax pro so take the advice for what it's worth, which is nothing.

Questions 1/2 (as this is the same question asked two different ways) - you should ask your tax pro this question. I tend to think you may need to file as a pro.

The first year that I filed, I was in a similar situation. Back then, I only had my records of Neteller deposits/cashouts and nothing more, and the sites back in that time couldn't really give you much more in the way of information. That isn't the case anymore - I believe FTP has a facility under requests in the main lobby where you can request your tournament history. If not, email their support and they should be able to help you get the information you need.

Final tips - make sure you file your foreign bank account report for your FTP account, even retroactively. The main thing I've always found in dealing with IRS is that they appreciate you making the effort to do it right. If you screw up details here and there, but you are acting in good faith, you'll come out much better off if you do make a mistake.
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote
03-10-2010 , 12:05 PM
Ask FTP support for an audit of your play for 2009 for tax purposes. They'll send you all your info in a big excel spreadsheet. You don't need Microsoft software to use this info. Just go download OpenOffice. It's free and is comparable to Microsoft Office in many ways.

I have no idea if you should file as pro or not.

Like Punker said you're going to need to claim your FTP account as an foreign bank account.

Good luck.
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote
03-11-2010 , 12:39 AM
I appreciate the prompt responses. The advice is also appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
You don't have to intend poker to be your main income in future years for you to file as a professional for 2009. Did you play to support yourself? If so, you were a pro for the year.
I used money I had won in tournaments to pay for rent, utilities, car payments etc. Yes I used it to support myself. I still am under the impression to not file as a professional. Even if by that classification, I was a "pro". Ha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker
Final tips - make sure you file your foreign bank account report for your FTP account, even retroactively. The main thing I've always found in dealing with IRS is that they appreciate you making the effort to do it right. If you screw up details here and there, but you are acting in good faith, you'll come out much better off if you do make a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMickHead
Like Punker said you're going to need to claim your FTP account as an foreign bank account.
As I am not trying to commit fraud, I appreciate this information. As painful as it is to have already taxed dollars taxed again, the law is the law. I'll be paying up.

However, not all things which are illegal are bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMickHead
I have no idea if you should file as pro or not.
And neither do I.

Thanks again for the help. I was even able to download a hacked version of the full Microsoft Suite. Making giant leaps here.
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote
03-11-2010 , 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by __jcm__
Thanks again for the help. I was even able to download a hacked version of the full Microsoft Suite. Making giant leaps here...into criminal activity.
FYP.
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote
03-11-2010 , 11:32 AM
I am a live poker player and an online poker player. While I have kept emaculate records for the last several years of my live play, my online record keeping has not been that great. I don't play online nearly as often as I play live. Yet this has changed in the past few months.

What exactly do you need and how do you go about obtaining it for record keeping purposes and if need be submitting something to the IRS?

I play primarily on PokerStars. I noticed that there is a selection under Requests in the Main Lobby for a "Player History Audit". Would this be suffice as proof of what I made to the IRS if I need it in the future?

Is PokerTracker or Hold'em Manager suffice as well? The only problem with PokerTracker (I have never tried Hold'em Manager) is that it does not automatically import my tourney results. I have had a hard time figuring out how to import tourney results manually. It's been a pain updating it manually.

What does everyone else do as far as record keeping for reporting purposes to the IRS? Can someone give me the 411 and let me know what I need and need to do to keep track of all my results?
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote
03-11-2010 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *******
I am a live poker player and an online poker player. While I have kept emaculate records for the last several years of my live play, my online record keeping has not been that great. I don't play online nearly as often as I play live. Yet this has changed in the past few months.

What exactly do you need and how do you go about obtaining it for record keeping purposes and if need be submitting something to the IRS?

I play primarily on PokerStars. I noticed that there is a selection under Requests in the Main Lobby for a "Player History Audit". Would this be suffice as proof of what I made to the IRS if I need it in the future?

Is PokerTracker or Hold'em Manager suffice as well? The only problem with PokerTracker (I have never tried Hold'em Manager) is that it does not automatically import my tourney results. I have had a hard time figuring out how to import tourney results manually. It's been a pain updating it manually.

What does everyone else do as far as record keeping for reporting purposes to the IRS? Can someone give me the 411 and let me know what I need and need to do to keep track of all my results?
There is some good info for you in this post:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...?#post17374852
A slightly different case regarding taxes Quote

      
m