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Old 02-11-2013, 12:20 AM   #751
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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I had an argument with a bigot at lunch on tuesday
I'm curious to know how this came about.

I also have two issues that have been on my mind recently and don't know where else to go with them, so you're all stuck reading about them. My parents are moving 1600 miles away in 2 weeks or so (compared to the 30 or so they are from me now). I haven't come out to them yet, but really feel I should for the obvious reason that I'd like for them to know (they're basically the next people on the list), and also I've gotten into the whole online dating thing and don't want to end up in a relationship that I'm hiding from them.

My biggest problem is that with them moving, I really have only one opportunity in the near future to do it in person -- one week from now when me, my brother, sister, brother-in-law, and grandmother are all getting together at their house. I just don't see it happening here, but also don't want to wait. All I can do is shout in frustration.

Issue #2 is that I'm so bad at reading this dating situation. Had 2 really great dates with a guy, each lasting 6 hours. Never felt like this about someone before. But instead of just being happy, I'm driving myself to near tears afraid that I'll lose him already. He did say "I feel a lot of affection for you," referenced getting together again, and texted me the day after the second date.

But that text was on Tuesday, and he said he was feeling overwhelmed. He didn't respond when I asked how he was on Wednesday, and when I asked again Saturday he said he was fine just busy. I know he had some (unfortunately reasonable) doubts that we would work out, but I don't know if that has anything to do with what's going on with him right now. I feel like I just have to wait for him to tell me what's going on at this point, but finding this line between clingy/crazy and going after what I want is proving hard.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #752
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Issue #2 - Not sure how familiar you are with Dan Savage (if you aren't, Google Savage Love and enjoy), but this basically comes straight from him.

In terms of romantic/emotional development, LGBT individuals are usually arrested and stuck in early adolescence until they come out. They then do all the thing straight kids usually do in HS after they come out (average is late teens to early 20s, obviously there's a ton of variance there) - have irrational crushes, learn how to date/be in a relationship, etc. etc. Please note that this isn't an insult (saying their romantic development is arrested), it's just that until they actually come out and start trying to date the gender they are attracted to, those type of experiences and the learning that comes with them usually come later for LGBT individuals.

Basically, you're experiencing what most of us have experienced at one time or another - an intense attraction to someone that you know probably isn't going to work out, and that's crushing. It sucks to go through but it's all part of the dating game. You feel hurt and silly because you know you're overreacting, but it happens to most people. So give yourself a break.

But don't text him again unless he texts you. Otherwise you're keeping that wound open with hope that this time he's not too busy. Odds are excellent that he was feeling overwhelmed by the intensity of this new relationship and his subsequent busyness is his way of withdrawing from you. He's told you want he wants (indirectly). Sorry.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:23 PM   #753
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Btw, this guy recommended to me the book "Velvet Rage." Anyone read it? I started and it seems good so far. It's about "overcoming the pain of growing up gay in a straight man's world," talking about the internalized shame, how we handle it, and how to overcome it.

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Please note that this isn't an insult (saying their romantic development is arrested), it's just that until they actually come out and start trying to date the gender they are attracted to, those type of experiences and the learning that comes with them usually come later for LGBT individuals.

Basically, you're experiencing what most of us have experienced at one time or another - an intense attraction to someone that you know probably isn't going to work out, and that's crushing.
The problem I think I have is that I do know this already. I'm older than most at this stage (27), I've read about related topics quite a bit, and I've witnessed everyone else going through it (not to mention all the teens/young adults I've seen come through the psych unit after a break-up). And so I was hoping all this would help me know what to do, but I still feel lost.

I do think we would work out great, though. The issue as I see it is just that our initial interaction put me in a much more passive role than I normally play (but I certainly am more reserved/less assertive to begin with), so he's worried that I won't be able to provide him with the challenge he's looking for. I think I can, but I'm afraid I'll fail at demonstrating that.

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But don't text him again unless he texts you. Otherwise you're keeping that wound open with hope that this time he's not too busy. Odds are excellent that he was feeling overwhelmed by the intensity of this new relationship and his subsequent busyness is his way of withdrawing from you. He's told you want he wants (indirectly). Sorry.
Yes, texting him again seems very bad. I was debating that text on Saturday for at least a full day. I just wish he would tell me what's going on so I'd know what to do with my life.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:53 PM   #754
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

It's probably more painful for you to hear it than for me to say it but it's almost certainly best to give it up. If he's interested - which is still completely possible - being overly clingy will kill that interest, and your best bet is to let him get in touch with you.

Ditto everything that RJ said - this seems to me most likely just a late young love, and you should console yourself in the knowledge your rational judgement is completely absent in your desire for this guy. It will get better.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:25 PM   #755
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

I'd add that when you are first coming out, or first forming gay friendships/relationships, it's especially hard not to notice how small the dating pool is, and there is a tendency to latch onto the first gay person you meet that you share some interests with and have some interest in, thinking that there aren't any more out there. Rest assured this is not the case, although depending on where you live it can definitely seem that way.

As for this guy, I would say ditto what everyone else has said and just leave the ball in his court for the time being.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #756
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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The problem I think I have is that I do know this already. I'm older than most at this stage (27), I've read about related topics quite a bit, and I've witnessed everyone else going through it (not to mention all the teens/young adults I've seen come through the psych unit after a break-up). And so I was hoping all this would help me know what to do, but I still feel lost.
It doesn't matter if you know it intellectually. You still have to experience to get the full effect. Which sucks when you are older but it's just the way that works. I was a late bloomer (for other reasons) and feeling like a 14 year old when you're in your 20s just adds to the discomfort but there's no shortcut for the actual experience.

Sorry.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:55 PM   #757
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

I should clear a few things up I guess. While I appreciate it, I wasn't really looking for advice with this issue as I was pretty sure already that there was nothing for me to do at this point. It's just been on my mind and I needed to get it out. Though I guess it is nice to hear that I'm doing this right.

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I'd add that when you are first coming out, or first forming gay friendships/relationships, it's especially hard not to notice how small the dating pool is, and there is a tendency to latch onto the first gay person you meet that you share some interests with and have some interest in, thinking that there aren't any more out there. Rest assured this is not the case, although depending on where you live it can definitely seem that way.
I'm actually doing fine here, too. At least on okcupid there are lots of gay guys in my area, and I'm not that far from Philly or NYC either. I had 2 dates with another guy before this one, and while I enjoyed his company and talking with him, I just didn't really feel the attraction/connection. I was also messaging with 2 other guys just prior to this, at least one of which was leading to a date.

I did feel myself falling into the whole "there'll never be anyone else like him" thing, but I know this isn't true. I just still hope I don't have to find out for sure.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:18 AM   #758
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Well, then another thing you might have to contend with, unfortunately, is some guys who've been out and about for longer that are going to be less likely to want to date someone who is new to the scene, so to speak. It's something I try not to pre-judge guys for, but as someone who is in my early 30s and out of the closet nearly half my life at this point, there is definitely a part of me that is somewhat put off by the idea of being in a relationship with someone still dealing with the business of coming out and such. And unfortunately I don't think that view is terribly uncommon.

That being said, you're likely to meet just as many guys who are in the same situation you are or that were there not long ago, and you may find yourself with more in common than those guys anyway. Not to scare you, but it's definitely something you might face at some point, or may be the reason a particular guy might seem interested but pulls away.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:51 PM   #759
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Well, then another thing you might have to contend with, unfortunately, is some guys who've been out and about for longer that are going to be less likely to want to date someone who is new to the scene, so to speak.
Yeah, I could see this being an issue here. This guy's been out for 11 years and he said at one point that he thought I could be vulnerable, which I think was related to this. I just wish I knew what the real problem was.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:43 PM   #760
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Issue 1: Go for it! I'm really glad I did, even though it was lol nerve-wracking . It is probably redundant to you at this point, but simplified:
Option A:
Spoiler:

Option B:
Spoiler:

Math!

Issue 2: Everyone is so wise in this thread. I'll just add that my experiences pretty much match, and I'm now finally in a happy relationship that was worth the wait. I did some pretty ridic things in the beginning, even though I had all the proper "knowledge." Experience is huge, so just get out there, don't worry, and be happy (and maybe go to conferences and meet other cool gay docs, if you are into that).
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:59 PM   #761
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Math!
The worst part is that in option B, I'm fairly certain they'd feel the same.

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(and maybe go to conferences and meet other cool gay docs, if you are into that).
But the "I'm a doctor" card doesn't work as well on them...
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:17 PM   #762
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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The worst part is that in option B, I'm fairly certain they'd feel the same.

But the "I'm a doctor" card doesn't work as well on them...
I can attest that this card would work on me.

*Looks over shoulder to see if bf is watching me type this.*
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:23 PM   #763
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

For the curious, my survey generated over 4000 responses, of which I'm using just under 3850. The sample is like 63% NON-HETEROSEXUAL, which is pretty huge.

So far my preliminary analysis of the first research questions indicates that sexual orientation does not effect attachment status, although I want to run that controlling for age as well. The average age of the sample is low 30s, and I wonder if there might be more attachment variability for individuals in their late teens/early 20s, since that's the average age for coming out.

More data updates as the situation warrants.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:10 PM   #764
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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For the curious, my survey generated over 4000 responses, of which I'm using just under 3850. The sample is like 63% NON-HETEROSEXUAL, which is pretty huge.

So far my preliminary analysis of the first research questions indicates that sexual orientation does not effect attachment status, although I want to run that controlling for age as well. The average age of the sample is low 30s, and I wonder if there might be more attachment variability for individuals in their late teens/early 20s, since that's the average age for coming out.

More data updates as the situation warrants.
That's a pretty awesome response rate. Congrats!
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:15 PM   #765
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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So far my preliminary analysis of the first research questions indicates that sexual orientation does not effect attachment status, although I want to run that controlling for age as well.
Would you like for us to submit a few thousand more surveys showing the results you were expecting?
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:22 PM   #766
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Would you like for us to submit a few thousand more surveys showing the results you were expecting?
Hahahaha.

That was the result I was expecting. It confirms the handful of previous studies that have looked at something similar. I just want to make sure there are no age considerations given what studies have shown about the average age of coming out and since my sample spans a couple of decades.

Sorry if that came out wrong.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:10 AM   #767
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/14...-have-gay-sex/

Interesting survey results, pretty high % of ppl.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:06 PM   #768
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/14...-have-gay-sex/

Interesting survey results, pretty high % of ppl.
That comes from here: http://www.timeout.com/london/sex-an...013-on-the-map

And a comment there echos my thoughts: "There is no mention of methodology here. How did you carry out the survey? For example, how many people were involved? What measures did you take to eliminate any bias? Could your results be compromised by any techical errrors? Without any explanations about the methods and methodolgy how useful to start giving results?"

Still, I'm not sure if these numbers match what we already knew or not, so I don't know if we should just trust them or not.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:51 PM   #769
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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That comes from here: http://www.timeout.com/london/sex-an...013-on-the-map

And a comment there echos my thoughts: "There is no mention of methodology here. How did you carry out the survey? For example, how many people were involved? What measures did you take to eliminate any bias? Could your results be compromised by any techical errrors? Without any explanations about the methods and methodolgy how useful to start giving results?"

Still, I'm not sure if these numbers match what we already knew or not, so I don't know if we should just trust them or not.
ya, i was wondering methodology as well.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:32 PM   #770
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

the guys in the photo are good kissers
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:18 PM   #771
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I read the results of the survey, and it definitely wasnt intended to be used for serious purposes.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:04 PM   #772
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Statistical update #2: the relationship between self-report attachment status and sexual orientation is indeed mediated by age. There's no correlation between the two for the general sample (which includes people aged 18-49) but there IS a relationship between the two for those aged 18-29, but neither of the other two age ranges I created (30-39 and 40-49), with those is the 18-29 age group who self-identified as LGB being more likely to report insecure attachment.

It's important to note that there is nothing causal about this study - a long range longitudinal study would be necessary to determine attachment in infancy/childhood into adolescence and adulthood to see if there is a CHANGE in attachment during late adolescence and early adulthood and if this is somehow related to sexual orientation. Theoretically, given the average age of beginning the coming out process (again, late adolescence and early adulthood, although obviously there is a very wide individual RANGE of possible responses here), I think this might be a time where attachment vulnerability is higher, and the additional stressors faced by LGB individuals may result in a transient increase in insecure attachment types during that period that disappears as the coming out process is completed and individuals form adult attachments and/or former relationships adjust after the initial disruption.

For the second research question, I used the responses for mother/father/peers (specifically an alienation subscale of that survey), and across the board higher levels of reported alienation during the coming out process is statistically correlated to insecure attachment. Again, this is not a causal study, so it's impossible to know if individuals who reported higher levels of alienation had less secure attachments to their mother/father/peers prior to coming out - this study can't "prove" that rejection during coming out damages the attachment system. That is a potential interpretation, however, which would provide some backbone to programs attempting to target anti-LGB bullying/discrimination, since if rejection is disruptive to the attachment system it would potentially have significant interpersonal functioning and psychosocial implications - insecure attachment is a risk factor for a host of possible suboptimal psychosocial consequences (just like other things like poverty, abuse, parental abuse, etc. etc. ad nauseum).

This seems pretty intuitive, that rejection/alienation from significant attachment figures would be related to attachment status, but believe it or not this hasn't been examined before.

I have a bit more data to run (mostly examining the relationship between alienation and attachment and a couple of time components) but so far I'm happy with the results, despite the limitations of doing a strictly correlational study.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:39 AM   #773
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

cliffs so far in layments terms?


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Old 03-05-2013, 05:35 PM   #774
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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cliffs so far in layments terms?


It's correlational only, but rejection during the coming out process is significantly related to higher rates of insecure attachment. Insecure attachment is bad. Ergo rejecting people for being gay is bad and has the potential for disruptions in their interpersonal functioning for an indeterminate length of time.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:35 PM   #775
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Insecure attachment = insecure person needing to be with someone??
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