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"Take Action" Messaging Recommendations for the PPA "Take Action" Messaging Recommendations for the PPA

06-01-2011 , 01:57 PM
To preface, I'm not a PPA hater. One thing that the PPA has actually done well about is begging people to get involved to help shape the organization's actions. Don't like a statement the PPA has put out? TheEngineer has been pleading for you to help devise language you are satisfied with. In that line, I thought I'd use what knowledge I have to help out. And, since Mason Malmuth is my personal hero, I decided to post it in NVG rather than just PM someone.

The situation: The PPA has been running a daily "take action" campaign. In my view, this has been pretty ineffective at galvanizing the poker community and getting a lot of people involved. 2+2 is a site that, by some estimates, gets 4 million page views a day and 400,000 visits. It's a site with users who have done some pretty incredible things, from leading a mob of internet detectives to uncover the superuser scandals, to donating tens of thousands to charity out of love for Barry Greenstein and donkaments. It's a userbase that has a great deal of power when it's motivated effectively. Despite this, the response to the PPA's initiatives have largely been tepid and cynical, and I don't think this initiative has really had much of an impact so far.

The problems:

1. The goals seem unattainable for one person.

The PPA's main longterm goal is to make internet poker legal, free, and safe in America. To accomplish this, the suggestion is that we should "like" comments on facebook and send a "man shakes fist at cloud" email to CNN. These actions have effects, but when that's the goal we're all fighting for, whether I make a facebook post or not or send an email really doesn't matter. It doesn't make any measurable progress to any measurable goal that the PPA has set, and that drives apathy.

2. Diffusion of responsibility runs rampant.

Given this, everybody assumes that others will help out, that their contributions don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and they don't make them. Individuals are actually being Game Theory Optimal in not participating, but as a group, we all do a lot worse with a group of listless GTO participants.

3. There is currently little to no personal or social benefit for taking action.

The first two problems exist in many social situations. One of them is voting. Each vote is unlikely to make any significant progress to winning the presidential election for a candidate, and it's again "rational" to sit out. What makes half of voters get to the polls anyway is that they have some greater personal or social reason to do so, even though their individual vote doesn't really matter.

4. The PPA's name is toxic right now.

Whether you like it or not and think it's fair or not, the PPA has come to be associated with ineffective, useless leadership, which kills people's desire to help out in a PPA campaign. It even contributes to the previous item - if you tell a bunch of liberals that you're helping out with the democratic party to get Obama re-elected, most of them will think that's pretty cool, and you get some social benefit from it. If you tell a bunch of poker players that you're helping out with the PPA to make internet poker legal, most of them will think that you're a moron who isn't having any effect.

The solutions:

1. Make smaller sub-goals that are more tangible and achievable.

There should be daily and/or weekly goals that can be measured. For the week of June 6th through June 12th, for example, make a goal that 500 2+2 users will sign-on to a list of people who have sent CNN a message asking them to increase their coverage of poker. Maybe that number should be higher or lower, I'm not sure, whatever seems appropriate based on current action levels. The point is that being one person who writes a letter to CNN, that gets poker more coverage, that gets politicians to pass a poker bill, is a daunting and probably useless thing to try, as an individual. But being one person who is part of 500 who helped make the group reach their goal? That makes people feel like they've actually done something. And if the participation increases significantly because of it, than it does mean they actually will have done something. When we get 500, we can go for 750, then 1000, then 1500, with new media targets, and so on. Get people feel like we're accomplishing something and the movement is growing stronger, not just that we're all taking shots in the dark that random actions may or may not be helping and may or may not be growing in significance.

2. Appeal to personal and social benefit.

Get some poker celebrities to sign onto the lists. If Tom Dwan posts "45. durrrr", I guarantee numbers 46-55 are going to get posted pretty damn quickly. People get excited when they see users they respect helping out and being another one of the group. It also creates a more compelling call to action - if you're on this list and you sent your email to CNN/blasted Spencer Bachus on Facebook today, you've helped. If you're not, why aren't you? There's none of that right now. Allowing people to more easily and recognizably go on record supporting the fight will increase the benefit from doing so.

The reason why most people vote, besides not thinking about the mathematics of the utility calculation of waiting in line vs the one whatever chance that their vote changes the presidency, is that they feel compelled by duty to "do their part", and there are social benefits to saying that they went through the effort and did it. "Do your part" should continue to be a theme of the PPA going forward to help avoid diffusion of responsibility and the feeling that fighting for poker rights is useless. So what if I can't make the libertarians more powerful with one vote? I can still do my part.

3. This should be a 2+2 userbase action that the PPA organization helps out with, not a PPA organization action that the 2+2 userbase helps out with.

This is going to require PPA swallowing their pride, but it's completely necessary. When Scott Brown ran for senate in MA, he avoided talking about his party, which is viewed unfavorably in that state. The PPA is viewed unfavorably on these forums, and this can't be the PPA's project. The announcement says "PPA Daily Fight for Poker Rights" - I know this was probably to make it clear that this wasn't a 2+2 project, only a PPA project that the 2+2 is giving a microphone to, but having the word "PPA" in there actually kills off a ton of interest from a lot of people in this forum.

Get 2+2ers to help out in running the operation on this forum (no, I'm not volunteering for that). Don't call it a PPA fight - let 2+2 users run the show, and give help when appropriate using the resources that the PPA has. The fact of the matter is that few people is energized to help TheEngineer out with a take action project, whether or not that's rational or fair. If the guys at Subject: Poker, for example, were willing to help out with an advocacy role, that would produce much different results than PPABryan telling me what to think about Phil Ivey. Imagine, for example, if NoahSD were leading the call for action - I'd slather my ice cream with mashed potatoes if that guy told me it was the right thing to do.

Obviously, there are a lot of problems with the current fight for poker rights, and I've focused on a small segment of them - the ones that have to do with PPA messaging/approach to getting people interested in helping out. Add your own thoughts about whether my recommendations are good, how they should be tweaked/abandoned, and what else can be done to help out.

TL;DR Cliffnotes: Just read everything in italics.
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06-01-2011 , 02:17 PM
I think if there was a campaign by guys like durr and big name live/online pros it would solve all of the PPA name problems. I don't think now is the best time to try and start a new group. I'll agree no one is endorsing the PPA right now, and it's sad. Phil Ivey response thread got 1k responses and 100k views in 12 hours. The forum wide announcement has been up since Friday and doesn't even have 1/20 the views. People would rather take 5 minutes to write an essay on how horrible the PPA is instead of helping the only organization fighting for our poker rights.
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06-01-2011 , 02:19 PM
Heh, thread gonna die now in the PPA forum. Sounds about right.
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06-01-2011 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastLife
Heh, thread gonna die now in the PPA forum. Sounds about right.
Yeah, I'm disappointed by the move. My audience for this is not really people who are already regularly visiting the PPA forum, and I think it's a much better and well thought out OP than most views in that forum. But I understand NVG is a hard forum to mod with a lot of tough decisions and I have massive respect for anybody who helps out there, so I'm not going to dwell on it.
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06-01-2011 , 02:33 PM
Idk what we should do. The only way for the PPA to reach goals like the 500 number you suggested is for people like Mason to endorse the things the PPA are doing. I got a warning for posting the action thread in the Phil Ivey thread. It got a 100 hits in 4 minutes and views have increased 25% in the past 14 hours. Something as simple as reminding people in the most popular thread of the day could go a very long way. It's not even a case of everyone doing not enough, it is a case of everyone doing nothing and bashing people who are trying.
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06-01-2011 , 02:39 PM
Great OP. Lot's of solid insight/ideas IMO. I would love to see this thread moved back to NVG. Moving it to the PPA forum pretty much hides it from people who should read it.
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06-01-2011 , 04:49 PM
Interesting ideas, although I hope we dont lose sight that TE is doing a great job putting these together and they are all worthy goals/actions.

Agree especially with the need to set measurable goals and to find some way to either work around or improve the fact that the PPA brand right now is pretty bad.
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06-02-2011 , 05:25 AM
Great OP.
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06-02-2011 , 05:50 AM
mers, thx for taking the time to write this up!
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06-02-2011 , 09:13 AM
Well said. The thread being moved to the PPA forum is making your points.
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06-02-2011 , 12:22 PM
The daily Take Action thread is NOT done by the PPA. It is done by Rich who happens to hold a position with the PPA. There is a difference. It being done outside of the PPA is why it is in the legislation area and not the PPA area.

Because of this, it would be more appropriate that the this thread be moved to the same area as the thread it is commenting on.
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06-04-2011 , 04:55 AM
OP I love many of your ideas. I'm not sure how bad the PPA rep is, i hadn't heard it was that bad. But in your circles it must be.

I just wrote this letter and have been copy pasting it to a bunch of facebook pages and mailed it quite a few places too. I hope anyone and the more the better edit it slightly and send it to as many places as possible.


I think finding ways to copy/paste and reach out to many politicians in short time can be very effective if enough of us do it!


I sent it a bunch of times. It just so happens that the last guy was the one here.


Congressman Langevin,

I am a tax paying and voting professional poker player. Or should say i was a professional poker player following the DOJ's recent actions? I just wanted to say the poker community loves you for your support and we hope you can help lead the fight to regulate and tax online poker sites. Not to raise money for our States or Country, not because millions of poker players want to play, but most importantly because shutting down online poker was an unreasonable attack on our freedoms. Please make sure to tax the companies fairly, like any other business. Also please understand that for poker players, much of the fun of online poker comes from playing against people from all over the world.

Can you imagine waking up one morning and finding out that you lost your job and the value of your business as well as it's inventory? This is what happened to online poker professionals. For a poker pro the amount of money they have on various sites is like the inventory in their company. As an online player It is necessary to carry a significant balance across several sites to ensure you can play in the best and highest paying games. It isn't super easy to deposit so a significant balance was required. Many players lost tens of thousands all the way up to millions because of this seizure. I can't blame any of those players, recreational or professional, for feeling their money was safe. Many of them probably read the UIGEA and felt poker must be excluded since it is surely a "game of skill".

Personally i had a pretty good chunk of my net worth on those sites that is now in serious jeopardy. As a 38 year old man who is an ex commercial fisherman that doesn't feel too good.

With an estimated 10,000,000 Americans who play online poker, how is this the will of the people? Please lend your help to right this injustice as soon as possible. Thank you for the support you have shown! You are the best and you have our votes for your continued support.

Sincerely,
A Poker Player
Brian James




I would also like to make a suggestion to any mods if they have read this far. Maybe a very few threads that you deem appropriate (ie: especially worthy and can use as much support as possible) in the "fight for poker" or "legislation" area should also be in the "news, views, and gossip" part of the forum? I mean ones like this, but also for a select few that were started in this forum or "poker legislation". Clearly the best of these that help the fight to implement regulated American online poker are the most important issue of the day for us online poker players. They can use as many "views" as possible.

Last edited by AKSharky; 06-04-2011 at 05:20 AM.
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06-04-2011 , 02:45 PM
As this is not a PPA-specific effort, I'll move the thread to Poker Leg.
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06-04-2011 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mersenneary
I guess I'll just quote this here then because it was deemed a quality enough of a view to be an OP in NVG.
Thanks for the taking the time to review this Mersenneary. It's much appreciated!

Quote:
The situation: The PPA has been running a daily "take action" campaign. In my view, this has been pretty ineffective at galvanizing the poker community and getting a lot of people involved.
It's actually not a PPA action. It's my personal action that I develop with the 2+2 community. I've been posting or recording for podcasts Fight for Poker Rights since the passage of UIGEA. Not only does this predate my PPA Board membership -- it predates by PPA membership entirely. While I do want everyone here to participate, I created it specifically to provide actions for those who are self-motivated to step up for the right to play.

Participation has been increasing. We have a Skype discussion group behind it as well. We've not yet galvanized the entire community, as you note. It's my hope that we'll make that happen via continued growth and attention to the issue.

Quote:
since Mason Malmuth is my personal hero, I decided to post it in NVG rather than just PM someone.
Mason has offered great support for this initiative. I hope everyone will take his advice and participate:
Two Plus Two Poker Strategy Magazine - June 2011 Publisher Note
by Mason Malmuth

Two Plus Two Magazine, Vol. 7, No. 6
http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/issue78/

As most everyone knows, the current news concerning online poker is not good. In addition to the original indictments issued on April 15, 2011, another set of indictments have been issued this last week of May. However, we at Two Plus Two don’t think that everything is lost for US players, and The Engineer has started a Daily Action Plan for those of you who are interested in bringing this cause to Congress. See the top of each forum for the “Fight for Poker Rights” announcement and we hope that many of you choose to participate in whatever The Engineer suggests....
Quote:
1. The goals seem unattainable for one person.

The PPA's main longterm goal is to make internet poker legal, free, and safe in America. To accomplish this, the suggestion is that we should "like" comments on facebook and send a "man shakes fist at cloud" email to CNN. These actions have effects, but when that's the goal we're all fighting for, whether I make a facebook post or not or send an email really doesn't matter. It doesn't make any measurable progress to any measurable goal that the PPA has set, and that drives apathy.
PPA asks that everyone write and call their lawmakers, write to media, etc. Fight for Poker Rights is different. It provides smaller, more specific action items that allow us to focus our efforts on more accessible targets. After all, it takes just a few letters to media with requests to cover specific stories to let them know that their readers/viewers care about this issue. Similarly, filling an entire House committee's Facebook page with pro-poker comments and having no anti-poker comments in reply makes a difference.

That being said, this is a community effort. I hope everyone will think about ideas they'd like to see in Fight for Poker Rights. Simply PM me, post them here, or share them within the Skype group. In fact, it's hard for me to come up with new stuff every day, so I welcome this greatly.

I also hope everyone will promote this (in a non-spammy way, of course).

Quote:
2. Diffusion of responsibility runs rampant.
Unfortunately, that's not a new problem. I try to lead by example, as do many here. I hope that, in the aftermath of Black Friday, more will do the same.

Quote:
3. There is currently little to no personal or social benefit for taking action.
Same problem as #2, largely. It's easier to let others do the heavy lifting. However, there really is a benefit to us all acting together. It helps us win our right to play and it helps us optimize the legislation that gets us there.

Quote:
4. The PPA's name is toxic right now.
I don't know about that. PPA has supporters and detractors. I do recognize issues in perception. In fact, that's why I've moved into a bigger role at PPA. It's to address this very concern.

It is my hope that I'll succeed here, obviously, but in the mean time there is no reason for anyone not to support PPA's drive for legislation.

Quote:
The solutions:

1. Make smaller sub-goals that are more tangible and achievable.
That sounds like a good suggestion. I'm all in favor of metrics.

Quote:
2. Appeal to personal and social benefit.

Get some poker celebrities to sign onto the lists. If Tom Dwan posts "45. durrrr", I guarantee numbers 46-55 are going to get posted pretty damn quickly. People get excited when they see users they respect helping out and being another one of the group. It also creates a more compelling call to action - if you're on this list and you sent your email to CNN/blasted Spencer Bachus on Facebook today, you've helped. If you're not, why aren't you? There's none of that right now. Allowing people to more easily and recognizably go on record supporting the fight will increase the benefit from doing so.
I'll see what I can do. Thanks!
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06-04-2011 , 03:42 PM
I think one of the best ideas on here that Mersenneary made was making the list of people to commit to a certain action. He's absolutely correct that I'd say a vast majority of individuals will do absolutely nothing because they feel like their one lone commital to an action is irrelevant and that others will pick up the slack. Pretty lazy thinking imo but it is what it is. I think The Engineer asking for X number of volunteers in the OP and asking them to post if they would like to be added to the list so everyone can see if he is getting the amount of people he needs and if they should get involved would be a great idea.

1) I need X amount of people to volunteer to "Like comments on Facebook at specified FB pages.

2) I need X amount of people to volunteer to write to CNN.

3) I need X amount of people to send this letter to these people etc.


I think each specific need should have it's own thread as well. People will lose focus quick if you have 3 lumped into one and as the thread grows through random post ppl will stop going to it. If one topic is focused on people will know exactly how many ppl you have so far and how many you need.

Great ideas in this thread. Good job.
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06-04-2011 , 04:24 PM
Good points op
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06-04-2011 , 04:44 PM
Great post OP!

I have a ton of respect for TheEngineer and really appreciate all the work he has done and continues to do. Also, I don't necessarily agree that the PPA name is "toxic" at this point, but you are are correct in that there are a lot of negative opinions of the PPA out there.

All that said, these are great ideas IMO. I really like the idea of having tangible goals that we should be shooting for. I would also prefer to see new actions every few days or every week as it becomes far more likely that a lot of us will participate in all them. I still want to have Rich leading the charge, if possible, but maybe making it clear that it isn't a PPA effort but a 2p2 community effort could be beneficial.

I am glad to see any type of participation in our fight for getting regulated online poker in the USA. Posting an opinion on how we should tackle this in a clear and well-written way is very helpful, and I appreciate the effort.
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06-04-2011 , 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastLife
Idk what we should do. The only way for the PPA to reach goals like the 500 number you suggested is for people like Mason to endorse the things the PPA are doing. I got a warning for posting the action thread in the Phil Ivey thread. It got a 100 hits in 4 minutes and views have increased 25% in the past 14 hours. Something as simple as reminding people in the most popular thread of the day could go a very long way. It's not even a case of everyone doing not enough, it is a case of everyone doing nothing and bashing people who are trying.
Who on earth gave you a warning for that, and what was the reasoning? On its face, that is ridiculous.
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06-05-2011 , 12:44 AM
I really like the idea of getting some star power behind us. Not just the pro poker players, but all the movie/rock stars that enjoy the game as well.
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06-05-2011 , 01:40 AM
We need a poker player to do this if we ever want anything done.

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06-05-2011 , 02:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mersenneary
Yeah, I'm disappointed by the move. My audience for this is not really people who are already regularly visiting the PPA forum, and I think it's a much better and well thought out OP than most views in that forum. But I understand NVG is a hard forum to mod with a lot of tough decisions and I have massive respect for anybody who helps out there, so I'm not going to dwell on it.
I hate NVG. With all the other crap they allow in that forum they move this?
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06-05-2011 , 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
As this is not a PPA-specific effort, I'll move the thread to Poker Leg.
It's sad that a thread like this gets 400 views and a random thread in the NVG section gets that easily no matter what the thread is about. It tells a lot about the poker community when the Legislation and PPA forums get so little views. Everyone is waiting on everyone else... it's pretty disgusting. People are wanting a change, but they aren't fighting for that change.

No effort, No change.
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06-05-2011 , 02:21 PM
I agree with Mers first suggestion completely. Make people more accountable for daily goals, say we want 500 people to confirm in the thread they've taken action. I know when I see a small thread I feel like my contribution is worth less, but if I see a bunch of people are doing it with me it makes me want to contribute more.
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