Why are so many poker players acting like the poker solvers is the absolute best way to play? You have to bet your gutshot straight in position at a 16% frequency on this turn card and blah blah. The poker players that I have played against that are strong and competent poker players are over bluffing now due to these solvers. They have no clue about their opponents tendencies or style of play. The solver says do this so that is the way? I really don't understand this at all. This solver strategy isn't going to be efficient vs a player like me or Chris Moorman, Jason Koon etc in poker tournaments. Certain player types of players are more focused on the solvers than than actual players they are playing and the table dynamics. This type of player has to go all in on the river on a scare card on the river and such so I just adjust and call light. The solver won't help vs a poker genius, this is silly now. How does this make any sense? I been playing poker for 20 years now this doesn't make any sense to me. You are supposed to play your opponent and adjust to their play, no solver will help you with that. I have learned how to bluff more watching people who do follow the solvers and that has helped me. This is rant because some poke snob will say I am wrong and that solvers are correct and I am a moron but am I?

Solvers = zero Equilibrium= playing balanced ranges so you aren't exploitable.

Nobody can emulate the nodes so therefore actually never play purely balanced ranges, hence why MDA came around.

Solvers aren't wrong, there just algorithms, people are wrong for trying to copy the nodes without thought and miss applying them.

are you a moron?

According to AI,


"Moron" is an informal, offensive, and derogatory term used to describe someone who is stupid or lacks good judgement."

From one post it is hard for us to judge you on that one.

Welcome back KevMode i missed reading your posts.

kevmode, I bet you beat the solvers!

sounds suspiciously like something a solver user would say to get non solver users to keep not using solvers

Youve always been a moron Kev

If they are overbluffing then they are not following the solver's outputs. Maybe they are overbluffing vs specific player types. (You still shouldn't bluff a calling station because a solver tells you to.
Although if you node lock for a station's calling range, you will find that the solver bluffs way less than normal)


If a player goes allin on the river with correct ranges/frequencies then the best you can do by calling is breakeven. And if you over adjust and call too light then suddenly you are a losing a lot of money because of your flawed perception that they are bluffing too much.


Thats not to say that solver studiers dont make mistakes and there isn't room to exploit those mistakes. But if you have no clue what the equilibrium strategy is then how can you properly exploit deviations from it?

Admittedly, not enough players attempt to node lock different player types and study how they should adjust vs them. And are more focused on studying the equilbrium.


Definitely NOT like zone defense though, as zone defense is pretty easily exploited by good outside shooting and offensive rebounding.

oh joy another person who has no idea how solvers going on and on about how solvers suck

This guy gets it

Same convo since 2016

Who allowed moron to escape from the profanity filter?

EDIT: I am a moron. It was the word R***** that got filtered

Its one thing to say an exploitive style can out perform gto its something else to say a solver can be beat

Its ok you'll make it

This is absolutely, 100% correct. You are not supposed to play like a solver, because A) you physically can't, and B) people are, first and foremost, emotional creatures; they have habits and tendencies that they mostly can't shake off because they're largely unaware of them. Humans aren't robots, so exploitative play with solid fundamentals will always be king until the day people stop playing poker for good.

Having said that, solvers are a useful tool. They are supposed to guide our poker intuitions towards a certain set of lines by providing the practice behind the theory. The practice itself though is a bit of red herring, because nobody can ever play like a solver. This is what a lot of the GTO bandwagoners fail to understand. Change a single bet by even $1 and the optimal play could change for some specific hand in some specific spot in some specific point in the decision tree. I don't care if you're the rainman operating on every nootropic and stimulant known to man, you won't be able to run the numbers in real-time to make the right move in every possible spot.

There’s only one way to test this.

Place GTO players vs non GTO players. After a big hand sample, see the results.

You’ll need to find honest people that don’t use GTO though, and two sets of players from the same stakes.

There's another way. Have the two groups face off against other random human opponents and then collect the results after some number of hands.

Yes this would work also. Perhaps a thread could be started with players posting their results and whether or not they study. Compare for each game size.

Just don’t let the thread know that the intention is to compare the results; as it could lead to more biased/fake posts.

In all seriousness, I don't think it's necessary to test this scientifically, since reason alone will suffice here. Every human player has habits and tendencies. These habits and tendencies carry over to the game of poker. The best poker players can pick up on these tendencies faster/more efficiently and maximally exploit them.

If you're a higher stakes player I think if you don't have any clues on how to use GTO or aren't some sort of mind reader you're probably missing some advantages. Though if you're winning who cares...GTONerds do lose see plenty lose...but generally those who incorporate it into their game do win.

I have been a moron for stating my opinion. i been posting on the forums for a while and have been playing poker for a long while as well. You guys always have to threaten me with your words yet in real life you won't do anything to me. Soft is what you are and fragile, you guys are all talk on here with no substance.

Whether or not a human can beat a solver at poker is not a matter of opinion. You might as well say magnus could beat stock fish or a man really can jump over the moon

Solvers are flawed.

They have a place though.

My biggest fear with computers it there speed. I feel like I can compete vs
a computer on 1 or 2 tables. But trying to playing many tables, I'm too slow.
Computers can play a certain level of poker probably on 20, 50 maybe even 100 tables.

Of course they will only get better too.

I feel players should be required to talk sometime online so that we know for sure
its not a bot

Guys, the main objective of using a solver is to understand his logic and nothing more.

By viewing what he does you can expand your thought proccess beyond. Its not about copying the solver.

If you can play against a solver and be competitive you're literally the greatest poker player to ever live

Well at least theirs 1 sensible post in this thread

There are no "GTO players" - so this challenge isn't possible to do. There are only players who try to emulate GTO.

The only way this could work would be if the "non GTO players" only used preflop and postflop bet sizings from known solutions - then the "GTO players" could try to use GTO Wizard solutions while playing or an RTA, since there is no other way they'd be playing "GTO".

It's simply impossible for a human to know even 10% of whatever the actual GTO solution is. There are simply too many boards, runouts, and bet sizings ... and when you change a variable such as a bet size or stack size the entire solution changes.

This is also why catching bots is difficult - there are many solutions that are very close or the same in EV and it's not really a great idea for bot detection to directly compare against known "GTO" solutions when using one isn't necessary to have basically the same EV - and also you can't do a direct comparison anyway unless the all of the bet sizes match up exactly to a known solution. To be fair if sizes are close to known solutions - the strategies from those solutions are still likely very good but not GTO.