I play in a weekly, semi serious home game. We play 2/5 $1,500 max typically full ring. 7/2 game in effect, so win a hand with any combo of 7/2 and everyone pays you $15.

It’s a splashy, loose and fun game between friends in the neighborhood. At the time of this particular event, the game was 8 handed with some of the big action players missing so things were a bit slower than normal. In a previous orbit, player A in the big blind had agreed to chop with Player B in the small blind after everyone prior folded. Next orbit, Player A finds himself with 7/2 in the big blind again, everyone folds, player B in the small blind motions to chop and Player A says no not this time while smiling / laughing. Player B mucks and pushes his small blind towards Player A. Player A then reveals the 7/2.

Table erupts, with some players not wanting to pay the $15 bounty. Ultimately everyone paid and Player A gave half the total bounty as tip to the dealer.

Some of the players maintain that because player A agreed to chop earlier, he should have been forced to chop this time and no 7/2 bounty should be collected, citing common courtesy.

Player A maintains that 7/2 game is a goofy rule and will lead to goofy things happening, ergo common courtesy does not apply and it’s a valid 7/2 bounty win.

What says you? Legit win? Or should the money be paid back?

I believe very strongly you should stick to the rules as stated. If something’s a violation of common courtesy, you can shame them or (in extreme cases) not invite them back or whatever, but adding a caveat to a rule AFTER a player has already played a hand out a certain way assuming the rule would be enforced as stated causes more problems than it fixes.

You can say “Here’s your bounty, but that was cheap, Rick. MOVING FORWARD…” and then say whatever the new caveat is.

Not even sure what the caveat would be. Chop shenanigans lead to so many miscommunications like this, as well as borderline collusion and soft play that I don’t see a way around, it’s just that the stakes were higher than 1.5bbs here.

Honestly, I think the biggest violation of the spirit of the rule here is that the player won the 72 bounty without actually volunteering any money with the hand. You could add a VPIP clause to the 72 bounty if you wanted.

Or you could just shrug it off as a quirky one-off situation that cost some people $15 that clearly doesn’t mean much to them. (Of course, Player A could have shrugged it off too and kept the game moving and the vibes loose and friendly, but he at least has the advantage of being “not wrong” here.)

Personally I'd let the current ruling and situation stand. Player got paid out it's done and over no changes. He played by the rules at the time and won the hand. I would change rule going forward. Make it so you must see a flop to win with 72. No flop it doesn't count. Simple and easy. I also wouldn't allow chops that just asking for issues.

Cheers!!!

problem with having to see a flop is that 3beting and 4betting with 72 is part of the spirit of the game and you dont want to remove that just so the rare walk doesn't qualify.


Either set a min pot size, VPIP requirement, or just say walks dont apply.

Best solution, because it works for other problems as well, is to say that selective chopping based on your hole cards is not allowed in the game. I wouldn't allow it in my game even without the 7/2 promo.

How does that work in practice? You have to not look at your hole cards first to decline a chop? What about selective chopping based on position (chopping in SB but declining in BB)? In practice does it just end up being if you chop once, you chop for the rest of the night?

Generally people have a standard practice that either they chop or they don't. Or it is based on the number of people at the table (I chop unless the game is 5 handed or less).

Hardly anyone tries to chop based on their hole cards (or SB vs BB) , and those who do are treated like a pariah even in public card rooms. It is not nearly as difficult as you make it sound, so I'm guessing you have played very little of cash poker in public rooms.

It would be even easier in a home game though,because you control what people can do and who is invited. You could even tell people that in your game, either everyone has to chop or no one is allowed to chop.

I think the opposite is happening where I'm having a harder time imagining enforcing the rule precisely because I ONLY play cash poker in public rooms.

Chops don't usually happen twice between the same players in the same dealer bump, so unless the floor is keeping a little black book of all the players who ever accepted a chop, we're talking about a player-enforced rule. Which, I grant you, is easier in a home game.

We do have very different experiences in how frequently people are selective about their chops, though, especially with hand promos involved. There's a whole secret language and elaborate mating dance people are expected to engage in to make sure no high hand or BBJ eligible hands touch the muck. Anytime I table AA after accepting a chop, there's always at least one person saying I should have declined the chop because I was eligible for the Hershey Squirt Surprise or whatever. Someone in LLSNL just recently posted a hand complaining that some IDIOT didn't know what "cheeseburger" meant, so I know these shenanigans aren't exclusive to my games.

I could see selectively chopping based on promos being close to non-existent in home games, but that's basically what happened in OP so here we are.

In any case, enforcing a rule that has to do with a player's intent is what seems the trickiest to me. After all, this is a game built around lying. If it's a blanket "no selective chopping" then that's one thing, but if someone can just be like "I don't chop when it's [visibly counts the number of players in their seat] 7-handed" then there are going to be arguments. If I had my druthers, I would never chop so I have a whole litany of reasons for not chopping (basically anytime I feel like we can just play a normal hand of poker without annoying a rec player.) None of my reasons are hole card related--see the AA example above--but another player who can't see my hole cards can reasonably presume it might be.

I 100% agree, btw, that it's very easy to name and shame and disinvite people that you think are angle-shooters, and being hinky about your chopping can go in that category. I just didn't know if you proposing an actual rule with actual parameters, which is why I had some questions--questions that, perhaps, have wholly legitimate answers that make me think, "Yeah that could work", but questions nonetheless.

(FWIW I have even less experience playing in private games where chopping is a big deal because the entire point of the private games is that they're big and splashy where folding to the blinds is rare to begin with and people aren't grouching with each other over not getting to pull their SB back because the BB actually wants to play poker. Maybe there are some recs where I'm inclined to limp instead of raise to give them their flop fix they so desperately crave, but I don't have to do a ton of chopping to protect their feelings.)

I have run into that BBJ ridiculousness occasionally, but I never went along with it. If I'm chopping, I'm chopping. I don't even look at my hand until someone else puts money into the pot, because I don't want to know that I just chopped my aces. If the other person doesn't want to chop, I'm doing my best to win the hand (not checking it down), and then I'm not chopping with him again. In the past most of my play was in rooms with no promos, and now in the game I play $8 is taken out of the pot even if you check it down, and everyone knows the promo is not worth that much.

I have also always played in games where most of the players were regulars, so it's easy to remember who chops or doesn't chop. It has also always been standard that most people don't chop when we're 5 or less, but I still will just tell the guys sitting by me that I'm no longer chopping when the game does get short. Again, it has nothing to do with my hand, and I'm not deciding each time I am dealt a hand.

Anyway, it has also never been a problem when I have played in home games, but they have never had any kind of promo. But if you're the one who runs the game, do whatever you like. Say that everyone has to chop, or that there will be no chopping. Or just say that it's like the games that I have played in - you either chop or not, and it could be different based on the number of players, but it cannot vary based on your hole cards, regardless of any promo.