Hi all,

So, what differentiates these three player types? Is it mainly winrate? Beating tough games? Stakes? Understanding of poker theory? All of the above? Some ideas:

Good -

Solid winner at low and midstakes live, or smaller online games, but struggles in bigger, tougher games. Understands basics of ranges and pot odds, has decent hand reading abilities.

Great -

see good player, but also beats bigger games 25/50 and similar live and 100NL online. Excellent hand reading abilities and plays their and their opponent's range, not their hand.

World class -

see great player, but also beats games 200/400+ live and similar and bigger online games.


What techniques do these players employ on a regular basis that others, like mediocre pros or recreations players, may not?


For example, they probably know when to bluff and when not to, use position to their advantage, have good starting hand selection and deviate from optimal exploitatively when possible against the right opponents.


(Disclaimer: my experience online is limited as I play almost exclusively live.)


I welcome more discussion!


Thanks,
DT

world class are super high roller mtt regulars

Some of the top players in the world have different skillsets.

Its hard to know, but I woudl say the world class players all have
naturally high IQ's also.

But those lines good, great , world class is somewhat blurred too.

IMOP only Phil Ivey has proven world class

He just has incredible instincts for players being strong or weak. I believe
part of the reason he is better than most at this, is becaues he tries harder,
focus' really hard on the game, and also he mainly prioritizes winning
over his eigo.

Show me how many top players have shown bluffs over the years to show off.
Now find me a Phil Ivey bluff that he showed. He has better bluffs than all of
them too. The sickest plays, never shown. He puts his eigo aside and just
concentrates on playing his best poker.

What about Tom Dwan? Antonius? Others? What makes them so great?

Cool topic/question
I think players like Antonius, and also Phil Galfond discern themself because they are constantly playing at such a high level, their game is top notch and I think mentally they are also so steady.

Dwan in his prime was different because he played so many more hands in so many spots that it was hard to hand read him I guess. He put so much pressure on as well post flop that his fellow pro’s didn’t find a way to adapt to his loose playing style. Still amazing to watch online and life play from him

Having played everything from low to high stakes in all forms of poker I will say some of the players who were beating the highest stake games in the past (during the poker boom) weren’t great players. They were good at game selecting and bumhunting. Their strongest suit was being patient and waiting for the nuts. As long as there was a sucker in the game willing to pay them off, they were beating the game playing ABC poker. Once the games dried up, all of those players who used to beat high stakes had to move down and now can’t even beat 1/2 NL.

I’ve encountered many fearless low-mid stakes grinders (especially online) who are far more skilled and adaptable. If they had the bankroll to play higher stakes and go on a heater, they may seem like world class players too.

A true world class player is one who can sit in a game full of great players and still come out ahead.

A pro who wins at high stakes because he’s a shameless bumhunter is not a world class player even though he may win the most thanks to droolers donating.

Winningest =/= most skilled.

Has to be intelligence, instincts, and hard work.

Best in the world right now varies by category and specialization. If you guys stilll think Phil Ivey is the best in the world, this game passed you by a long time ago. Not saying he isn't great- but I'd put money on Timofey, Linus, Badziakouski, Malinowski, Berrisweet, Otb, Stefan, in cash games.

Tournaments there are deeper options, but Badziakouski, Linus, Chidwick, Haxton,

Dwan is so great because of his tilt control on the table.

You guys don't see that???????

He's the modern day Chip Reese.

Might not sound like much, but basically never tilting playing your
A game all the time is Massive !!!

And super super rare too. Like it really is a special gift. To me fully
controlling tilt is like trying to not feel pain when a bowling ball falls on
your foot, basically impossible to me.

Wish I had Dwan's tilt control.

It would go something like this.

Good:
Suspecting your opponent is bluffing the river but folding to find a better spot.

Great:
Suspecting your opponent is bluffing the river and calling him down.

World class:
Knowing your opponent is bluffing the river and raising him.

Good: Mike Matusow
Great: Phil Hellmuth
World-class: Doug Lee

Serious answer:

Good players understand ranges as well as important concepts such as polarization and denying equity. They are capable of adapting their strategy based on their opponent. They rarely or never tilt.

Great players have a thorough understanding of all important concepts in poker and know how to apply them. They study a lot. They are very good at hand reading. Great players never tilt or play worse than their B- game.

World-class players are the best great players, I guess.