I was reviewing the latest version of HB 3 - Prohibition of Simulated Gambling Devices, which just passed favorably out of the FL house committees, and noticed that there might be an impact on Internet poker per the amended definition of slot machine in the bill:

Although the bill is meant to outlaw Internet cafes, I believe that this amended bill could potentially be interpreted to include in the definition of slot machine any computer that is used to play Internet poker, including both offshore real-money sites and legal US play-money sites that award prizes.

So Pokerstars can offer ipoker to Florida residents?

No.

A particularly poorly worded statute. Although the intent seems clear from the title, the actual language would appear to make ATMs illegal too. It would seem to cover any machine which operates upon "any consideration whatsoever" and then dispenses credit "whether by application of skill or by reason of any element of chance or any other outcome unpredictable by him or her...."

So if there is a fee for use of the ATM and the outcome of the transaction is "unpredictable" to the user (whatever that means - maybe the transaction will be declined?), it would seem to be covered!

And those kids machines in which you put in a quarter and get a random prize worth a penny or a dollar, those are gone too.

Skallagrim

Wait, Florida wants to outlaw internet cafes?

Not legitimate ones. Just the ones that run sweepstakes or bingo gambling machines.

Gotcha.

I've been hanging out in the jacksonville area for about a month now. I can tell you that this is a pretty backwards place, but outlawing internet cafes seemed pretty nutty, even for Florida.

Well, I guess I'd be for outlawing atm fees.

But seriously, I think there might be an issue for ipoker players, as the legislation is more likely to be interpreted as indirectly covering a "gambling" game than things like atm machines and kids prize machines. I hope the PPA will take a look to see if some FL legislature lobbying is needed.

sweepstakes cafes are goddamn gold mines. It is sickening how stupid some people are, and how much money a small one can make with zero risk. It is an agonizing thing on principle to want them banned, but they are causing some real damage.

Thanks for pointing this out. At the very least, it might be worth bringing this to Abruzzo's attention so that his bill can explicitly exempt online poker "machines" from the 849.16 definition of slot machine, should HB 3 pass.

This bill (Florida HB3) has passed the Florida House and has been sent to the FL Senate (probably for a vote and likely passage this week). The relevant provision has been changed slightly, and now reads:

Under this provision, possession of any computer that is used for online poker could potentially be illegal imo, under this Florida statute:

The criminal penalties upon conviction include forfeiture and destruction of the property (computer); misdemeanor in the second degree for first offense; misdemeanor in the first degree for second offense; and felony in the third degree for subsequent offenses.

While the bill is certainly not intended to be applied to online poker players, I think that it could be construed that way at some later date if a politician or law enforcement agent gets a bug about it. I don't think it is likely to happen; just that it is possible.

NB Skall: A specific exemption for the kids machines (as long as the tickets you win aren't worth more than 75 cents!) was added to the bill in committee by amendment, so the politicians are certainly aware of the broad nature of the definition.

This seems a good bet to provide employment for some criminal lawyers in Florida, although the penalties seem aimed at coin-operated machines.

Not sure from reading this thread if the PPA has brought any lobbying effort to bear to clarify this matter. I can see the opinion that the bill is badly written and that it might cause headaches, but has it been "actioned", at least for the Florida based membership ?

It's being looked at. No call to action yet.

Since playing cards for money is already a misdemeanor in FL, I don't see this bill having any impact on players, but it could have an impact on whether or not FL is able to pass i-poker intranet legislation in the future.

Since the tribal casinos have exclusivity compacts for slot machines, any FL bill that might allow the lottery to serve poker (turning PC's into legal slot machines) would violate those compacts.

So this bill could be a good thing for poker players, since under that definition of a slot machine, the state shouldn't be able to monopolize i-poker.

I'm sure you must be basing your opinion that playing cards for money is a crime in FL based on this FL statute:
However, it is untested in courts whether or not this carries over to the Internet, and there has been no FL legislation that yet addresses it. In addition, this new bill would increase the criminal punishments and put the personal property (computers) of players at risk of seizure. It would also give a new avenue of approach to someone who specifically opposes internet gambling.

Regardless, I doubt that the new bill will have an impact on i-poker players. I just think there is a small risk that it will, and now is our possible opportunity to close that door before it is passed.

As regards the tribal casinos and i-poker, that was already addressed in the Seminole compact. Under the compact, the state can pass legislation to authorize i-poker. If implementation if i-poker causes tribal revenues to fall below a certain level, the revenue-sharing payments to the state are reduced.

There is also:

They could use to go after online players, and: Basically makes anything remotely associated with gambling subject to seizure.

And when you read: It's a wonder they don't have cops doing door to door searches now. If those in power wanted to go after online poker players, I don't believe they would need this new definition of slot machine to do it.

I see. So then you consider poker to be a game of chance. Got it.

Latest info is that the bill is DOA in the FL Senate for this year.

Any game played with cards is considered gambling under Florida statutes, what I consider poker to be isn't important for this discussion.

I'm curious though why any bill that that seeks to shut down Internet Cafe's (such as Reid/Kyl) alarms you so much, most of us just want to be able to play in our homes.

As usual, you assign your words to someone else's opinion. My opposition has nothing to do with opposing Internet cafe's, either here or to Reid/Kyl. One need only read my posts literally to see the reasons for my opposition to the specific bills' provisions. I do not have any hidden agendas, so no need to try to expose such.

This bill has reared its head again in Florida, and it looks like it will pass this year:

CS/HB 155 - Prohibition of Electronic Gambling Devices

The relevant text this year will amend Florida statutes to read:

Once again, this will present a problem for online poker players in Florida, including both offshore real-money sites and legal US play-money sites that award prizes (and possibly even completely play-money sites like Zynga where points could be sold on a secondary market), effectively turning any computer used by a player in Florida for online poker into an illegal slot machine.

This passed the Florida House today 108-7.

I anticipate that the Senate will pass it as well.

this bill sux! there are arcades(slot parlors) on just about every corner in FL. those are "approved" but playing a game of skill in my home is not approved

i guess those would be covered under the law, but there are an awful lot of them to be shutting them all down, and they have been here for years. why would they be an issue now?