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Old 12-22-2012, 01:17 PM   #2201
Henry17
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by konrad View Post
In the case of a Canadian citizen studying in Europe, how would getting sponsored by a euro site affect his tax debt? For example, if he can play rake-free and if the site offers to pay travel expenses for a few live events.
Depends on if you are considered a resident of Canada or not. There is a check list for that which was posted a few times in this topic.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:47 AM   #2202
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I recently received a request to submit a return for 2011. I haven't filed a return in 6 years, one of which I was in college. I have also spent the majority of my time living out of the country for the last 4 years though I still maintain an address at my parents house in Canada. I've lived off of poker for the last 5 years and only once had a part time job for a few months during this time which was more for something to do than necessity and made very little money.

I'm now in the US and just got married and am in the process of applying for my permanent resident status. I was planning to start paying taxes here for 2013 since I should have a ssn at some point this year.

I'm not sure what to do now should I claim my poker income? What about the other 5 years? They didn't mention them only 2011 and should I put down just 0 income I probably won about 80k that year. I'm not even sure exactly how much I made in 2011 just the hem stats with rakeback included.

Any advice is appreciated
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:36 AM   #2203
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxGuru View Post
US Canada Tax Treaty

ARTICLE XXII

Other Income

1. Items of income of a resident of a Contracting State, wherever arising, not dealt with in the foregoing Articles of this Convention shall be taxable only in that State, except that if such income arises in the other Contracting State it may also be taxed in that other State.

2. To the extent that income distributed by an estate or trust is subject to the provisions of paragraph 1, then, notwithstanding such provisions, income distributed by an estate or trust which is a resident of a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State who is a beneficiary of the estate or trust may be taxed in the first-mentioned State and according to the laws of that State, but the tax so charged shall not exceed 15 per cent of the gross amount of the income; provided, however, that such income shall be exempt from tax in the first-mentioned State to the extent of any amount distributed out of income arising outside that State.

3. Losses incurred by a resident of a Contracting State with respect to wagering transactions the gains on which may be taxed in the other Contracting State shall, for the purpose of taxation in that other State, be deductible to the same extent that such losses would be deductible if they were incurred by a resident of that other State.
Does the "permanent establishment"/"fixed base" standard come into play here at all?

Also, isn't there a strong argument that $$ won on Stars or Party arises in the Isle of Man or Gibraltar and not in Canada?

Thanks.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:10 AM   #2204
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Isn't it also logically impossible for Article XXII to apply to winnings of a professional poker player because the profits, in order to be taxable, would have to be considered business income and, thus, governed by Article VII?
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:17 AM   #2205
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Zobags View Post
Does the "permanent establishment"/"fixed base" standard come into play here at all?

Also, isn't there a strong argument that $$ won on Stars or Party arises in the Isle of Man or Gibraltar and not in Canada?

Thanks.
I don't think so. I have not had my morning coffee yet and it has been more than ten years since I have had to give this any thought but a Canadian gambler's gambling business does not have a fixed point of businesses in the Isle of Man so the argument is a non-starter.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:58 PM   #2206
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
I don't think so. I have not had my morning coffee yet and it has been more than ten years since I have had to give this any thought but a Canadian gambler's gambling business does not have a fixed point of businesses in the Isle of Man so the argument is a non-starter.
Actually, I think the Isle of Man argument does not matter because of what I put in my next post - at least in my case.

I am a US citizen spending part of the year in Canada to play online. As long as I remain a resident of the US (as defined by Article IV), my winnings/"business profits" are taxable in Canada only if I carry on my business through a "permanent establishment" in Canada, per Article VII. Does this seem correct?

It has been over 10 years since law school for me as well, and this treaty is not the most elegantly drafted piece of legalese.

Thanks.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:11 PM   #2207
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Hey,

From roughly 2005-2010 I enjoyed a massive amount of success from poker.

I'm moved on to other things and I'm now on track to have another huge success in a non-poker endeavour. Provided that that continues to materialize, I'd like to become a public figure in a few years, i.e. write a book, become a speaker on the subject of success. I of course would like to mention my poker experience as part of the story. Would discussing poker candidly, particularly the things I did to succeed, possibly be used to establish I was a professional?
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:52 PM   #2208
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I am an American professional poker player that has been spending time in Canada to play online poker. I was under the impression that if I spent less than 183 days in Canada I would be deemed a non resident of Canada, therefore not owing Canadian taxes. However, I just spoke with a Canadian accountant and he said that a professional poker player would be considered a business, and I would owe Canadian taxes even if I only spent one week in Canada. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether a professional poker player is considered a business? Do I have an argument that it is not a business? How much of a risk would I be taking not paying Canadian taxes?

Thanks
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:02 PM   #2209
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

A professional poker player--if indeed a professional within the meaning of Canadian law--is carrying on a business. This then raises other tax treaty issues that may give rise to different tax consequences.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:36 PM   #2210
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxGuru View Post
A professional poker player--if indeed a professional within the meaning of Canadian law--is carrying on a business. This then raises other tax treaty issues that may give rise to different tax consequences.
So, Article VII of the treaty should be our guide?

Thanks.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #2211
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Does anyone know what came of the taxation question surrounding Duhamel's 2010 winnings in the WSOP? I remember hearing some buzz about it at the time, but nothing since. It seemed like it had potential to set a precedent in Canadian courts, but I'm guessing it was settled outside of court?
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:22 PM   #2212
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Heads up to CDN's using RBC. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...r-rbc-1303783/
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:38 PM   #2213
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Assuming a person who doesn't declare an income can get a mortgage, would then buying a house be likely to trigger an audit?

Thanks.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:35 PM   #2214
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by ebffs View Post
Am I going to raise any flags continuing to report $0 income (4th year in a row now, 33 years old with a Graduate degree in Science) but from a Thailand address? Better to just stop reporting all together?
I'm curious about this as well.. not the Thailand part though, I'm strictly CDN and have been reporting $0 for a string of 4-5 years now since I was a student and am curious if there's any potential for this to raise any flags..
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:12 PM   #2215
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

If your residence is in Thailand why are you filing Canadian taxes? Assuming you don't have significant ties to Canada you are not a resident.

cigoL,

Depends. The first thing would ask is why are you filing? There is no requirement to file if you plan to claim $0 income so are you motivated to file so that you can claim credits of some kind? Are you looking to establish your residency for the purpose of TFSA room?
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:52 PM   #2216
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I don't really have any motivation as far as credits go.. I just assumed it was something that can come in handy in the future. Like for example when I bought my properties, the mortgage broker needed a few years worth of income tax reports. I do plan on buying more property in the future, is this something I'll definitely need?

Are there any other real benefits to filing if you're filing $0 income and don't care about credits or TFSA type stuff?

Not filing just seems like it puts me off the grid like some sort of rogue. If I were to get investigated some day (for whatever reason), would it be better for me to have not filed at all or to have filed with $0 income each year?

My situation is that I've been a pro for 4-5 years and typically making 1-300k/yr but have opted not to pay taxes after much deliberation from reading everything in this thread (along with talking to friends).
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:50 PM   #2217
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by cigoL View Post
I don't really have any motivation as far as credits go.. I just assumed it was something that can come in handy in the future. Like for example when I bought my properties, the mortgage broker needed a few years worth of income tax reports. I do plan on buying more property in the future, is this something I'll definitely need?
Lenders will often want notice of assessments so that they can confirm that you don't owe the government a bunch of money. This isn't an absolute requirement and if you have a relationship with the lender they might not ask but overall I do believe it will be harder.

How do you own multiple properties and have $0 income?

Quote:
Are there any other real benefits to filing if you're filing $0 income and don't care about credits or TFSA type stuff?
HST credit. Other credits for poor people that you might qualify for. Generally nothing much. I think some provinces require you to fine to get health care but that isn't the case in Ontario qne it sounds wrong to me but someone said this about BC and since they live there and I don't I have to assume they are correct.

Quote:
Not filing just seems like it puts me off the grid like some sort of rogue. If I were to get investigated some day (for whatever reason), would it be better for me to have not filed at all or to have filed with $0 income each year?
I don't think it makes a difference. You are not required to file if you don't owe taxes. If CRA wants you to file they will ask you to and then you have to.

Quote:
My situation is that I've been a pro for 4-5 years and typically making 1-300k/yr but have opted not to pay taxes after much deliberation from reading everything in this thread (along with talking to friends).
I'm not a fan of paying taxes so I don't disagree with you decision although discussing this with friends is something I would not have done. Relationships change and even when they don't envy is a really influential emotion.

You should also be aware that within the last month I got a PM from someone I don't know. Claimed that he along with a group of poker pros were being investigated by CRA. They had a lawyer but he wanted my advice. I have no idea if this signals a change in how the government approaches professional poker players or what. I personally didn't think CRA would take a serious run at poker players for a while but maybe this signals I'm wrong or maybe it is just nothing.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:40 AM   #2218
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I've never filed taxes and opened up a TFSA

Would I be correct in assuming that profit from people I back is 100% taxable? (Other than the fact that it's virtually impossible to track)
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:09 AM   #2219
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
If your residence is in Thailand why are you filing Canadian taxes? Assuming you don't have significant ties to Canada you are not a resident.

cigoL,

Depends. The first thing would ask is why are you filing? There is no requirement to file if you plan to claim $0 income so are you motivated to file so that you can claim credits of some kind? Are you looking to establish your residency for the purpose of TFSA room?
In Canada I have a storage locker, that's it, and actually even that is in my gf's name. I was under the impression you had to officially expatriate from the country to not be liable for taxes on foreign income. It's just the USA where you automatically get the tax exemption after a certain number of months out of the country.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:11 AM   #2220
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by ebffs View Post
In Canada I have a storage locker, that's it, and actually even that is in my gf's name. I was under the impression you had to officially expatriate from the country to not be liable for taxes on foreign income. It's just the USA where you automatically get the tax exemption after a certain number of months out of the country.
No. The United States taxes are based on citizenship but in Canada they are based on residency.

The most important consideration is do you spend 180 days or more in Canada. If you do then you are a Canadian resident.

If you spend less than 180 days you may still be a Canadian resident if you have strong ties to Canada. There is a list of the items they count towards figuring out if you are a resident or no in an interpretation bulletin that has been posted in this topic a dew times. The big ones would be stuff like maintaining a residential property that is not occupied by an arm's length renter, owning a car or boat, maintaining Canadian banking, maintaining your Canadian driver's licence, maintaining your health card, even having a gym membership or magazine subscriptions. Some of these count for more obviously -- a house with a car waiting empty is worth a lot more than a gym membership for example.

If you are not a resident you don't have to pay Canadian taxes.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:04 PM   #2221
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by banalanal View Post
Assuming a person who doesn't declare an income can get a mortgage, would then buying a house be likely to trigger an audit?

Thanks.
Bump.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:57 PM   #2222
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I have always wanted to know that. It was discussed in this topic and I think the answer was no but I don't remember. You need to go back 2-3 years to find when it was discussed.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:44 AM   #2223
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Hi,

In the T2125, they ask Product/Services offered. What should i wrote? I dont really want to put poker as i didnt declared anything related to poker before 2012 and i obviously dont want them to ask if there was any before...

If anyone could help me filling this sheet i would highly appreciate, never filled it and im very lost with all the boxes.

thanks
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:48 PM   #2224
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Anybody here who filled or already filled in the past their tax report that was including at least 30k poker revenue could PM. I really need some help about how to feel my tax return correctly regarding this.

thanks in advance!
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:07 PM   #2225
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I put "Professional Poker Player" last year and they did not question anything about winnings before 2011. Although I did also have a part-time job, and was going to school along with poker prior to that.
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