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Old 10-09-2012, 12:41 PM   #2176
Henry17
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

If you have a backer then pretty hard to argue you are not engaging in poker as a business activity.

For scenario 1 I say taxable but it would really come down to how well the person judging the situation understood gambling.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:16 PM   #2177
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Thanks Henry
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:37 PM   #2178
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Me and my girlfriend just got approved for the working holiday visa for 1 year.
Im playing poker professionaly in Sweden and as I only play on European sites I dont pay any taxes.
I plan to do the same in Canada as long as I can avoid paying taxes there.

I contacted the CRA and got the answer that its based on if my status is as resident or non-resident of Canada.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/it...onsolid-e.html

In the link and earlier in this thread it seems that I counts as an canadian resident if I stay for longer then 183 days in a calender year.
As I transfer my money from the poker sites to my swedish bank account the risk of getting caught is very low. But Im interested in working at an shared office so there is always the risk of somebody tipping them of.
At a swedish poker forum I got the advice to not tell people what I work with, but Im not really interested in that.

Is there any way to go around this? It would suck if we both had to leave after just 6 months because of this.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:45 PM   #2179
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

There is no way to not be considered a resident if you spend more than 183 days here.

The chance that CRA will bother you is so ridiculously low that I wouldn't give it a second thought. I have no idea what the tax agency is like in Sweden but CRA is lazy and incompetent. They don't go after easy and obvious cases of Canadians who don't pay taxes so why would they go after a much more complicated situation like yours?
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:17 AM   #2180
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Hm. A very low risk i still a lot more then zero risk compared to staying 6 months in Canada and for ex 6 months in New zeeland.

How much would I have to pay if somebody turns me in?
Lets say I make either 100 k $ or 200 k $.
Is there any risk of jail or could I just claim that I didnt know?

I know its hard to estimate risk but would you say lower then 1 %? I guess finding an office with poker players would make the risk lower compared to getting an shared office with self employed people.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:46 AM   #2181
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Don't think it's automatically the case that kossa_mu will be a Canadian resident. If you still have an apartment available to you in Sweden, don't close down your bank accounts, still have health coverage, etc., it is quite possible that the treaty terms would determine for you to remain resident in Sweden.

The Canada-Sweden tax treaty has the following tie-breaking rule for determining tax residency:

2. Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1 an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, then his status shall be determined as follows:

(a) he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State in which he has a permanent home available to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both States, he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State with which his personal and economic relations are closer (centre of vital interests);

(b) if the State in which he has his centre of vital interests cannot be determined, or if he has not a permanent home available to him in either State, he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State in which he has an habitual abode;

(c) if he has an habitual abode in both States or in neither of them, he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State of which he is a national;

(d) if he is a national of both States or of neither of them, the competent authorities of the Contracting States shall settle the question by mutual agreement.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:09 AM   #2182
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

We are renting a furnished apartment in Sweden right now as we spent the last year in Australia. I will be written at my mothers adress during our trip.
So I will still have all my stuff in Sweden but not a permantent home.

Im planning on renting a furnished apartment in Vancouver so I guess that doesnt counts as a permanent home either..

My economic relations are closer to Sweden as Im playing on european sites and I work a lot with swedish poker players. But that might change during a year in Canada. I will still only play at the european sites.

Regarding my personal relations I will have my family and friends in Sweden but my girlfriend will be with me in Canada.

Im not totally sure what habitual abode means but I will have my normal place of living in Canada during the year I stay there. Im going to Sweden in aug for a few weeks but except that I plan to stay most of the time in Canada

I found the tax calculator in this thread and if Im staying in Vancouver it seems to be about 68 k if I make 200 k$. Is this correct?
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:44 AM   #2183
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

So it seems that arguably you will have a habitual abode in both places. On the additional assumption that you are a Swedish national, the tax treaty would then deem you to be resident in Sweden for tax purposes.

Even if you are resident in Sweden, the next issue that arises is whether your winnings arise from a "fixed base" that is "regularly available" to you in Canada.

According to the treaty:


Article 14

Independent Personal Services

1. Income derived by an individual who is a resident of a Contracting State in respect of professional services or other activities of an independent character shall be taxable only in that State unless he has a fixed base regularly available to him in the other Contracting State for the purpose of performing his activities. If he has or had such a fixed base, the income may be taxed in the other State but only so much of it as is attributable to that fixed base.

2. The term “professional services” includes especially independent scientific, literary, artistic, educational or teaching activities as well as the independent activities of physicians, lawyers, engineers, architects, dentists and accountants.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:12 AM   #2184
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

By the way, there is an excellent way to get free Canadian tax advice at http://www.taxwiki.ca from the knowledgeable community of tax students, preparers, accountants, and lawyers there.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:49 AM   #2185
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

TaxGuru,

Yes. My mistake. A tax treaty can trump the 183-day rule.

TaxGuru & kossa_mu,

That being said I'm not sure if it matters. If I remember correct you are still subject to Canadian tax on business income earned in Canada even if a non-resident. This raises an interesting question of where is online poker income earned? There was a time when I might have had something intelligent to say about that but now I have no idea.

kossa_mu,

The risk that anyone from CRA will bother you is so small I'd call it zero. I'm an ******* who pisses off a lot of people and I've more than likely been reported and still nothing. I actually engage in activity which is ******ed from an EV situation but simply a desire to poke CRA with a stick and again they don't really bother me. There are so many Canadians who they can go after and don't. There is no chance they would go after someone who is only here for a year.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:56 PM   #2186
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

The source rules are interesting here.

On the basis of the treaty language of article 14, I think one would have to concede that poker played out of a "fixed base" that is "regularly available" to the taxpayer would be within the purview of the Canadian income tax.

The next follow on question would then be whether the Canadian income tax actually takes the opportunity made available by the treaty to impose tax on the poker winnings.

This then turns on two things:
1. REOP / income from business
2. source of income in Canada

In general I suspect that it might be easier for a taxpayer to win on the first rather than the second, but the second is (though perhaps only weakly) debatable.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:40 PM   #2187
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Another hypothetical. Since it is much easier for a tournament player (who has a full time job) to argue that his playing is just an occasional irregular hobby and any winnings are a windfall akin to a lottery, what if you played cash (or whatever) and just reinvested your winnings in tournaments instead of withdrawing them? eg. You grind up your online roll to $2k and then play in a $2k tournament, you min-cash (which is $4k) then withdraw the $4k to your bank account and, if ever audited by CRA, just provide evidence of the tournament cash...?
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:53 PM   #2188
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Thanks you for your help Henry17 and TaxGuru but I dont really understand the last posts. Even with 5 % risk and no extra penalties it should be better to stay for 1 year in Canada compared to the costs to go to New Zeeland for us both.

But it would be very good to get an clear answer in this question.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:01 PM   #2189
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

kossa_mu,

Not 5%. The odds are so low that it would be several zeros after the decimal point before you hit a number. I'd put the odds of you winning the lottery while in Canada as higher than CRA coming after you.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:51 AM   #2190
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Gambling profits are 0% taxable. Period.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:17 AM   #2191
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladb View Post
Gambling profits are 0% taxable. Period.
Thanks for clearing that up. You should really call the tax court and let them know so they can stop wasting their time on cases involving gambling income.

As much as I hate taxes and encourage people not to pay them when an idiot like you shoots his mouth off it actually makes me hope that the handful of competent CRA employees actually get around to going after poker players.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:08 PM   #2192
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I've been averaging about 75k/year off poker for the past 3-4 years, it has been my main source of income. I recently put a deposit down for a one year lease on an apartment. My concern is that while the landlord seems like a good guy, he said he is an accountant for the RCMP. It's not like he's working for the Canada Revenue Agency, and maybe I am a bit paranoid on the off chance he would report me/look into my tax situation.

Even if that is the case, would there be much concern that the CRA would do anything? Again, unlikely the landlord says anything in the first place but obviously his job description makes it more likely than say a construction worker would. Of course, I don't see why the bank manager down the street couldn't also possibly say something too. Or maybe that guy at the party that asked what I did for a living. Is it paranoid to be concerned about people you come across saying something to the CRA?

I can still back out of the deal by Monday, though I would lose my deposit. I am checking out another place on Sunday, but I will probably still stick with this place. But if anyone can shed any light on my situation that'd be great.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:42 PM   #2193
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

If you already told him then screwing him over and backing out seems like it would be a bigger risk of pissing him off. If you haven't told him and you have been approved then I don't see any point in telling him.

Unless you have done something to piss someone off most people will have no incentive to report you. As far as I know the CRA (unlike the IRS) does not pay for information.

With respect to being ratted out I don't know. I suspect that I must have been ratted out by someone just based on the number of people who dislike me and nothing has happened.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:12 PM   #2194
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I was approved as I told him I play poker and showed him a screenshot of my bank account as he wanted to make sure I could afford to pay the rent. He actually thought it was really cool, said he likes poker too and seemed intrigued by the idea. So now that I think about it, the chances of him doing anything is very low especially since he'll be getting his mortgage paid by me and according to you there is no real incentive to say anything to the CRA unless you want revenge on someone.

I guess my question was targeted specifically towards his job, as to whether he would be more likely to inquire about people getting taxed etc. since he works as an accountant for the RCMP. Thankfully he didn't ask any questions about taxation in the two times I've met him so he probably doesn't know or doesn't care about that issue. The regular joe I am not worried about at all though since they have little to no knowledge about taxes and so forth.

Backing out of the deal shouldn't piss him off, in theory, since he gets to keep the 1/2 month's rent deposit I gave him and he only lost a few days worth of time to find a new tenant for December. It's a highly sought after place he'd find a new tenant in no time. I have one more showing on Sunday just in case it is somehow better and I am able to get the place, but I will try not to factor in the aforementioned landlord's job as a deal breaker.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:23 AM   #2195
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

if i decide to file, what expenses can i write off as a business expense and how much (%)?

e.g., most computer electronics should be a business expense for obvious reasons, a rent/mortgage should be written off because it is an office from which i conduct my business, car and gas expenses some of the time because i use them to play poker in the casino, travel trips to vegas are business trips, etc.?
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:18 PM   #2196
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus-1 View Post
if i decide to file, what expenses can i write off as a business expense and how much (%)?

e.g., most computer electronics should be a business expense for obvious reasons, a rent/mortgage should be written off because it is an office from which i conduct my business, car and gas expenses some of the time because i use them to play poker in the casino, travel trips to vegas are business trips, etc.?
Mortgages can never be written off, just the mortgage interest and only a portion of it. IE) a home office that uses 10% of your home entitles you to write off 10% of your interest.

You can do other write offs from your home as well (same % as your home office), ie utilities, property taxes, insurance, (100% internet) etc.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:23 PM   #2197
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

If you use a portion of your home for business purposes then you can't claim the capital gains exemption for personal residences on that portion of your home.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:23 AM   #2198
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

My understanding is that you are only partly precluded from the principal residence exemption if you deduct capital cost allowance with respect to business use of a home office.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:21 PM   #2199
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Am I going to raise any flags continuing to report $0 income (4th year in a row now, 33 years old with a Graduate degree in Science) but from a Thailand address? Better to just stop reporting all together?
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:30 PM   #2200
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

In the case of a Canadian citizen studying in Europe, how would getting sponsored by a euro site affect his tax debt? For example, if he can play rake-free and if the site offers to pay travel expenses for a few live events.
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