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Old 05-24-2012, 10:05 PM   #2151
TaxGuru
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by ShowUthExit View Post
I am the Canadian friend. I assume I don't pay tax on it the same way I would if it were my own score? Is there certain paperwork that I need to fill out? I'm confused because I have gotten a few different replies to the first question already. thanks for your help.
The test is whether your activity was purely commercial or part personal / part business. Since staking someone is, all else the same, less personal and more commercial, it is more likely to be treated as taxable (in the case of gains) and deductible (in the case of losses). Having said that, taking this reasoning too far causes it to fall in on itself. For example, you couldn't just enter a tournament with a bunch of buddies, staking each other, and claim losses as deductible. For this same reason, it is arguable that staking has a personal element in most cases. Add to this that staking agreements are unlikely to be legally enforceable on account of public policy and you've got yourself a reasonably arguable case for "not income from a source."
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:32 PM   #2152
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Leaving for Vegas sunday.. Considering taking 15k with me and will obviously declare it to customs. Just curious if someone on here would know if when i declare the money, the people at customs will contact Canada Revenue Agency and go through my records. I do pay my taxes but would obviously like to avoid any sort thing that could come back to me.
Thanks
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:31 AM   #2153
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

How should a person who has filed 0 over the last 5 years go about buying a house? I live in Quebec. I realize I will need a bigger down payment and I'm cool with that, but I just want to know if the bank will basically laugh at me since I've got no income, or if it is doable.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:51 AM   #2154
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

The big five will normally not be interested. National Bank will but their requirements are much higher than other options. Your best bet is to go see a mortgage broker that has experience doing no income verified mortgages.

When you said filed 0 -- do you mean you filed with $0 income or you never filed? Showing notice of assessments even if you reported no income is often a lender requirement.

If the funds are not in a Canadian institution you should probably get them into one a decent time (I think 90 days but I'm tired so could be wrong) before making the purchase. It simply avoids a bunch of BS designed to catch money-launders.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:35 AM   #2155
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by WTFIJustDid View Post
How should a person who has filed 0 over the last 5 years go about buying a house? I live in Quebec. I realize I will need a bigger down payment and I'm cool with that, but I just want to know if the bank will basically laugh at me since I've got no income, or if it is doable.
I'm not sure what the requirements are bit I think its one of those things where it depends who you talk to at the time.

I had a mortgage for 5 years with First Line (which is a subdivsion of CIBC) They never said boo about what I did for a living since I paid taxes and had T4's to prove it. We never missed a payment, we were never late,we made prepayments and had about 50% equity built up in our house.

Now I just tell people I'm a self employed contractor in risk managemnet.

It came up for renewal about 4 years ago and they wanted to confirm my info. When asked what I was doing for a living, they basically said we can't touch you due to your occupation I talked to a supervisor they said the same thing they didn't want to touch me with a 10 foot pole. I asked why it wasn't a problem 5 years ago and they wouldn't tell me. They had an issue with a poker pro at renewal time though.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:57 AM   #2156
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Hello, I tried searching the tread but I didn't find what I wanted.

I've been playing poker for a while (about 5 years). The first 3 that I did, I was at the University and had a summer job, I declared my non-poker revenus every year. Those years I was making maybe 1k/month playing low stakes while studying.

I finished school and for the last 2 years I had a normal job (32h/week) and I declared those revenues also but I had quite a bit of success at the tables where I made good on the side money in relation of what my job paid (maybe 50% of my salary). I didn't declare that since I figured it wasn't my job but a hobby, which is the truth.

Now, this year, I worked until april at that job but I asked for a termination in order to play poker and look into business ventures. I have a BAA in Management and I would like to be a management advisor or something like that and I would also like to continue playing poker.

My question: since I consider myself an advisor and I have a couple of contracts but I make around the same money playing poker than as an advisor for the moment, is it legally ok to consider myself as a self employed advisor or I should consider myself as an advisor AND a poker player (and declare both revenues)? Also, if I was to make more money playing poker than advising, can I still consider myself an advisor?

Anyway, for this year I will declare my old job revenues + contacts but not my poker earnings since I don't really see the point doing so (am I wrong?) my big concern is for the future years...

Also, if I decided to declare my poker revenues, should I declare everything (what I win, bonuses, rakeback, everythng that I cash out basically) or I have a little room to decrease those winnings (pretty sure that one was answered in the thread, but to have the answer at the end of the thread would be cool for people like me that can't search a forum correctly).

Infos: I have a mortgage of about 120k on a 270k house, my GF makes about 46k/y, we both have old cars and aren't living an extravagant lifestyle. I have about 30k in my bank account and with the revenues I declared in the past years, I had to have something else in order to have that money. We gave a 135k cash down on the house 1.5 years ago. 45k from her (savings on her salary) 90k from me (had about 12.5k from summer jobs that I saved up, 30k from my job after the U, 32k from a heritage and the rest was poker). I'm in my mid-late twenties and she's in her mid-twenties.

All my taxes were made by an accountant that I trust and everything is legit. He told me that he thinks my poker winnings should be declared in the future but I kind of disagree with him since I don't see the difference in playing as a hobby when I work in an office and playing as a hobby when I'm self employed.

I plan on making around 15k next year as an advisor and maybe the same playing poker.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your help and sorry for my bad english!
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:37 PM   #2157
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Also, should I declare my poker winnings as a non taxable revenu or should I just plain ignore it since I consider them lotery gains?

If I wasn't willing to pay, should I file a report with 0$ as taxable and declaring 30k as non taxable loteny winnings or just file a report with 0$ income.

Thanks again!
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:31 PM   #2158
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
Hey, sorry to not read through 24 pages of epically long stuff, just going to ask my question

1) I have two residences, one in canada and one in the USA. I play poker (all online) when I'm at my canadian residence, but I ship all my winnings back to the USA and pay USA taxes.

Am I going to need to worry about paying Canadian taxes in addition? (amounts in the 5 figures).

Andrew
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Originally Posted by TorontoCFE View Post
Only if you live in Canada primarily. Even then, likely no.
That's incorrect. Owning a residence in Canada and living here part of the year you are certainly a Canadian resident and have to pay tax on your worldwide income.

You will get a tax credit for the tax you paid in the USA, but the Canadian rates are usually more than US so they can definitely come after you.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:37 PM   #2159
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

It's worse than that. If you're not resident for tax purposes in the US, then you've been paying tax in the US without a reason, since if what you claim is right, the income you have from gambling has a Canadian source.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #2160
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

US taxes based on citizenship, not residency. So it is a bit different, but ya, he might not need to pay the US tax.

If the Canadian tax is more though the point is moot as he would get a credit on his Canadian return for any amounts paid in the US.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:41 PM   #2161
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

1) He didn't say he was a US citizen.
2) There is a treaty provision that deals with gambling winnings.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #2162
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

US Canada Tax Treaty

ARTICLE XXII

Other Income

1. Items of income of a resident of a Contracting State, wherever arising, not dealt with in the foregoing Articles of this Convention shall be taxable only in that State, except that if such income arises in the other Contracting State it may also be taxed in that other State.

2. To the extent that income distributed by an estate or trust is subject to the provisions of paragraph 1, then, notwithstanding such provisions, income distributed by an estate or trust which is a resident of a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State who is a beneficiary of the estate or trust may be taxed in the first-mentioned State and according to the laws of that State, but the tax so charged shall not exceed 15 per cent of the gross amount of the income; provided, however, that such income shall be exempt from tax in the first-mentioned State to the extent of any amount distributed out of income arising outside that State.

3. Losses incurred by a resident of a Contracting State with respect to wagering transactions the gains on which may be taxed in the other Contracting State shall, for the purpose of taxation in that other State, be deductible to the same extent that such losses would be deductible if they were incurred by a resident of that other State.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:22 PM   #2163
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I know this is unrelated, but I don't know where else to ask...

Can anyone tell me what Canadian banks allow gambling transactions? I'm going to be moving there September 1st. I opened an account with RBC a couple weeks ago when I was up there and asked if they allowed gambling transactions, and the employee said yes, and then I find out a few days ago that they actually don't. So **** them.

If anyone is currently using a bank that let's them deposit on gaming sites and could let me know, it'd help me out a ton.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:46 PM   #2164
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

B MO vissa works ok the last time I tried.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:54 PM   #2165
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

What do you mean RBC does not allow gambling transactions? I'm fairly certain that they do.

What you likely heard is that RBC Visa can not be used for gambling. A lot of bank credit cards can not be used for gambling but you can do e-checks / moneybookers from any of the five major banks.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:18 PM   #2166
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

RBC's Visa debit can't be used for gaming is what I meant. And I can't use eChecks on Stars because they need your Social Insurance Number, which I don't have.

But if most banks don't allow Visa's for gambling I'll have to go the moneybookers route I guess. Thanks.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:16 PM   #2167
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Sect7G already said one that does although I think he means MC not Visa
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:21 PM   #2168
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
Sect7G already said one that does although I think he means MC not Visa
Can confirm BMO MC works on all the poker sites I've tried including Stars
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:05 PM   #2169
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Can confirm BMO MC works on all the poker sites I've tried including Stars
My BMO MasterCard stopped working a long time ago on Poker sites...
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:11 AM   #2170
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
Sect7G already said one that does although I think he means MC not Visa
You sir are correct. I just looked.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:51 AM   #2171
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by craiggerz View Post
My BMO MasterCard stopped working a long time ago on Poker sites...
Some cards don't actually have a policy against online gaming sites, but the transactions still get flagged because it shows up as an offshore international transaction. Just like when you're traveling you have to call in and give the heads up that they're going to see some shady transactions on your card.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:26 PM   #2172
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I have a question regarding claiming tournament winnings as a Canadian that were withheld in the US. I am a Canadian resident and I'm a couple years behind on my income tax since I still file under my parents since I'm a recently graduated student who is not working. I understand that I have to show losses to claim winning in the US, I can do this as I had losses and receipts from tournaments that year (2010). Do my Canadian taxes for that year have to be filed in order to claim the money from the IRS? What do I need to do in the US to claim these withholdings? I've seen the advertisements for the companies claiming to help you reclaim in Canada, are they worth it? How much do they take, is it a set fee? Also how long generally do these refunds take?

thank you, any help is greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:55 AM   #2173
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
I believe both TorontoCFE and TaxGuru are considerably more knowledgeable than I am on this subject but I will give it a shot.

1) Doesn't matter. By the time CRA is getting this information it is pretty much game over for the individual in question. The account history as well as the balance is what matters.

2) Maybe five years ago I would have answered but I'll have to pass now. I will say though that if your choices are not paying taxes but also not being able to invest the money or paying taxes and investing the money the math on this is pretty simple -- you are much better off paying taxes and investing. The options are not limited to those two mind you -- for example you can also invest and not pay taxes and hope it is never an issue which is likely the best choice for most.
Are there any statistics out there that could help an individual decide which choice is individually best for him considering his personal degree of comfort of being audited sometime in the future?

For example, has anyone heard of any typical non-famous online grinder ever being audited in Canada and forced to pay income tax on his past earnings?
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:03 PM   #2174
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

B&M grinders yes including people who played only underground games. I have no exposure to online players except though this site. The two I knew in person -- one voluntarily paid taxes the other did not.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:04 PM   #2175
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I am looking for an opinion on whether someone would be subject to Canadian tax on their poker income under 2 circumstances (in particular the likely interpretation of the 'reasonable expectation of profit'):

(1)
- They work full time as a licensed professional in finance.
- They play poker for fun, online only, playing anything from 0-15 hours a week (averaging say 8) and earning between $0-$2000 (average $1k) a month with the occasional losing month.
- They don't play (nor study) the same players but play hyper speed games against a wide range of opponents.

(2)
- The exact same circumstances as (1), except that they have a backer who they split profits with so that they can play in higher stakes games and thus they make more money.

My feeling is that (1) is likely to not be required to pay income tax but (2) most definitely is...?
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