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Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

02-18-2012 , 01:15 PM
You can go back and restate your income taxes. I did it for someone who forgot to claim some credits. That was only going back one year. I'm going to go with there has to be a limit to how far back you can go. Since his losses are from 2002 the years where he claimed income would be 2001 and earlier. My guess is that would make them too old to restate so he is screwed.

This assumes he actually claimed winnings -- he could just be delusional.
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02-18-2012 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banalanal
If Tarascio claimed his gambling as income for years, I assume he paid taxes on it. Now that he is being denied the ability to claim losses, does he get reimbursed for the taxes he paid on his winnings?
I didn't see anything saying he was a net winner over the years.
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02-18-2012 , 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoCFE
I didn't see anything saying he was a net winner over the years.
This is from the article:

"He claims to have won tens of thousands of dollars. For years he claimed those winnings as income, but he also deducted his losses and expenses"
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02-18-2012 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_miami
This is from the article:

"He claims to have won tens of thousands of dollars. For years he claimed those winnings as income, but he also deducted his losses and expenses"
That plus "Giuseppe Tarascio claims that gambling is how he earns the bulk of his income" led me to think the same thing but on but the wording doesn't actually say he had a profit. He claimed his winnings as income and deducted his losses and expenses -- we are never told that the result is a positive number. The article is misleading but TorontoCFE is correct in that he never actually says that he claimed gambling as income.

I'm led to believe he likely didn't.

I don't have time right now to read it but here is the actual decision. Maybe it contains the answer.

http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlig...2012fca30.html
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02-19-2012 , 02:43 PM
We don't know all the facts but it says he won tens of thousands of dollars over the years and yet in the 2 years in question he had more than 100k of losses.

It might be that he won <10k a year for years and then had a few years where he lost big and may have made him a net loser.

He sank himself when he admitted he gambled for the thrill and not profit.
He didn't keep records properly and didn't practice. Not organized enough.

The only good thing is that other people have had their case strengthened because it is hard for the CRA to argue losses aren't deductible and then claim winnings are, at least to current judges' thinking, if the facts aren't 100% against them.
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02-20-2012 , 03:57 PM
Hard to see how that decision has much bearing on pro poker players. The man appeared to be a problem gambler who played -EV games all the time out of the thrill of it.

For those new to the thread, I'd read taxguru's posts very carefully. He is one of the leading gambling law profs in Canada and has been cited in a number of globe and mail articles on the taxation of internet poker winnings.
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02-20-2012 , 06:46 PM
WTF? Since when was taxguru a leading law professor?
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02-20-2012 , 06:50 PM
He claimed that his degree in mathematics coupled with his experience in probability theory gave him the expertise to register his gambling as a business.

his true calling: horses, slot machines, casino games and lotteries.

Spoiler:
LOL
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02-20-2012 , 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by axemmiw905
WTF? Since when was taxguru a leading law professor?
Always. I'm pretty sure it even says it in his bio. Btw I have met him and know it is him....
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02-20-2012 , 08:30 PM
It is more than obvious that TaxGuru has an LLB. I assumed he was a lawyer until a few months back when I found out he was actually an academic.
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02-20-2012 , 09:01 PM
wowwww we have such an esteemed person in the thread, this thread is mos def worthy
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02-22-2012 , 10:25 PM
Guys - I'd really like some guidance -- this is a huge daunting thread and as much as I will inform myself I'd like to start by getting some direction from you guys.

As I have started a ''real life job'' in 2011, and now it's time to declare my taxes, I'm forced to face the fact that I have not declared any taxes for 2006-2010.

I was never a 6 figure earner, but made a modest income - lived well enough for my needs... Was living at home and had barely any expenses (ie: easy modest slack life). I wasn't the most ambitious player - I would play to put money in my pocket, to have enough money for puffing (I've quit now); didn't have the brains, talent nor ambition to make 6 figures.(I was a bum-hunter).

My cash-out pay was precisely like this (basing it on my cash-out requests saved in my emails):

2006 - 10 K ( only started last half of the year)
2007 - 27 K
2008 - 15K
2009- 20K
2010 - 5K (only)
2011 -16K (had accumulated from 2010)

I got things together and have a full time job now since early 2011.


I am going to file taxes for every year that I have missed but seeing how low my income was, would I be better off declaring my poker income ? And get some tax credits ?

And if I do - is it Business > Other type of business income

(taken from TurboTax)

Is this something I can do on my own using a software like TurboTax (you guys must be laughing at me thinking I'm a huge idiot

Or should I get a professional advice (even if my income is miniscule)?

Or should I just forget about declaring my income, and call it years lost where I was doing nothing productive ?? And declare a few bucks in ''other'' personal income (made a few dollars helping a friend out with his business on occasion)


Thanks guys - hoping someone is nice to enough to push me in the right direction - cheers
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02-22-2012 , 10:40 PM
The legal answer is you almost certainly qualify as a professional and should pay income tax. Would need to more info but fairly certain.

The real answer is no way would I bother declaring that as income.
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02-22-2012 , 11:16 PM
Thanks for the reply Henry. It just seems odd to fill out empty tax returns; hope all the 0's aren't red-flags...

If the CRA had made it simple, I wouldn't have an issue declaring.

I'm sure with the right tax specialist I'd be owing very little, maybe manage to break-even or owed. I have no clue really. But what's ultimately holding me back it seems is that it appears to be a complicated filing process, and I'm not sure if I can do this myself in an easy fashion. If I require a professional tax specialist, I don't know where where to go (h&r block? online poker tax specialists?) and how much they would charge.
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02-22-2012 , 11:30 PM
You'd be ow2 over $20k if you declared
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02-25-2012 , 01:07 AM
I am also wondering who to contact about help with taxes. Could H&R block handle it? Is it better to get a tax attorney? What should I be looking for when trying to find someone to do my taxes?
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02-25-2012 , 07:46 AM
Never go to H&R Block for anything
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02-25-2012 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17
Never go to H&R Block for anything
Agreed - poorly trained, over-priced amateurs.

Learn to do your own, it's a little tricky but very doable and there is a lot of help around.
I've done 10+ a year for friends and family for years. (beer donations welcomed)



Quote:
Originally Posted by slub
Is this something I can do on my own using a software like TurboTax
Also, why pay for software like Turbo-T when Studio Tax is free.

This is a CRA link and page:
http://www.netfile.gc.ca/sftwr-eng.html
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02-25-2012 , 01:01 PM
Doing your own taxes is ridiculously easy without software. If your taxes are more complicated than you can do on your own then the staff at H&R Block are also going to have no idea what to do.

Studio Tax is a great program given it is free. TurboTax is slightly better but the difference is not worth paying for.
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02-25-2012 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17
Doing your own taxes is ridiculously easy without software. If your taxes are more complicated than you can do on your own then the staff at H&R Block are also going to have no idea what to do.

Studio Tax is a great program given it is free. TurboTax is slightly better but the difference is not worth paying for.
I am not sure if my tax situation is that complicated but at the same time I do not feel very confident that I can do my own.

Also for reporting poker income, if I made money in 2010 but did not cash it out until 2011 which year would I claim it on taxes?
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02-25-2012 , 03:28 PM
2010. Income is based on when you earn it not when you receive it.
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02-25-2012 , 04:13 PM
That is not correct. According to tax law, there is no matching principle like in accounting. Income is actually based on when you receive it, not when its earned.
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02-25-2012 , 04:35 PM
It has been a long time but I'm pretty sure that is not the case but even if it was it wouldn't apply here. You have received the profit as soon as the pot is awarded. That your funds are stored in a online account doesn't matter.
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02-25-2012 , 11:20 PM
If I decided to file taxes for the 2 years I have been playing poker 2010 and 2011 would I have to pay interest and penalties for 2010? I am still not sure if it is my best option to file taxes or to just claim that I have had no income for the last 2 years. I assume that just not sending in a 2010 return and just sending in one for 2011 can't be a very good idea.
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02-26-2012 , 12:14 AM
I think this has been discussed ad nausem in other poker tax threads. Your income is calculated on a session basis, and that is the date the income was earned, not when it was withdrawn.
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