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Old 09-25-2009, 08:29 PM   #851
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by LuckyfishZ View Post
I went to HSBC today to ask about the offshore account. I just talked to the teller but the teller said I cannot open an "offshore" account. And it's automatically HSBC canada account. Maybe the teller doesnt know enough ? When I asked whether he could ask the manager, he just repeatedly said I can't open the account.
To open an offshore account you haveto actually go to a bank that is offshore, therefore not in Canada. Anything you open in Canada is a egualr account.

Offshore accounts are either opened by going to a different country or through an agent.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:48 AM   #852
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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I went to HSBC today to ask about the offshore account. I just talked to the teller but the teller said I cannot open an "offshore" account. And it's automatically HSBC canada account. Maybe the teller doesnt know enough ? When I asked whether he could ask the manager, he just repeatedly said I can't open the account.
http://www.offshore.hsbc.com/1/2/int.../bank-accounts

Do it online not at the branch.

I would start by opening a normal HSBC internet savings account (also not at the branch). Once you have a product with them then go to the offshore site and open an account at the Isle of Mann.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:03 PM   #853
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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So you didn't file two years and go a notice to file but didn't file again last year? Or you haven't ever received a notice to submit taxes.
Worked two jobs in 2006 and filed. Did not file in 2007 and received a request to file which I did. I had very little income to report. 2008 I did not file. I have yet to receive a notice to file for 2008.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:32 AM   #854
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

that's a first. i'm studying taxation and haven't come across this... yet. lol
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:13 PM   #855
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I have a CRA disclosure question.

Can a lender verify the accuracy of Notice of Assessment? Basically how does a bank verify that the notice of assessment is not a forgery if they suspect it is?
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:11 PM   #856
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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I have a CRA disclosure question.

Can a lender verify the accuracy of Notice of Assessment? Basically how does a bank verify that the notice of assessment is not a forgery if they suspect it is?

The lender would have to get the taxpayer to authorize the lender on the taxpayer's account with the CRA. The lender could then get a copy
of the Notice directly from CRA that would have to be accurate.

Anything going through the taxpayer is vulnerable to fraud and the lender can't get any information directly from CRA without the taxpayer's written consent beforehand.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:22 PM   #857
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Thank you
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:11 AM   #858
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Slightly off topic but how do we buy 100k+ cars and 500k+ houses as poker players when we aren't filing any taxes and don't want to write the full amount?

I understand that the chances of any one poker player being audited are quite low. Is there anything we can do to make the chances of this happening even lower? Or on the other side of the coin, what usually causes an audit?
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:43 PM   #859
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Cars you just buy. You shouldn't be buying $100k+ cars on credit unless you have tax advantages for doing so which poker players do not.

Homes you get a NIQ mortgage. Sometimes called a low-doc / no-doc mortgage. Generally you need to limit yourself to major cities and have 25-35% for the down-payment. If you want to deal with a major bank you need 50%. Build a credit rating using a secured credit card. Have some sort of business license or corporation even if it doesn't do anything.

With respect to how to avoid audits when making a real estate purchase that enters the area I don't comment on but yes there are ways to do it.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:50 PM   #860
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

You pay higher interest for a no-doc mortage though right? And, these NINA (no income no asset) or stated-income loans probably aren't given out as much these days I'm guessing. I also read that a lot of no-doc mortgages actually require a lot of disclosure, so it's a bit of a misnomer. It probably all depends on the bank. If you just payed 100% for a house, that must be tracked somewhere.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:29 PM   #861
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

It depends on the deal. Generally you do pay more in interest but if it is a safe deal then not anything meaningful. I have been looking at buying for a few months. Originally I was interested in a property that was at a high but not unreasonable price for my market and with 30% down I could get a mortgage at 5.4%. When I went to something at a much higher price even with 35% down I was looking at 7-8%. A third property I was interested in was the same price as the first one but because of the type of property it was going to be 2-4% upfront and 11-14% interest.

Generally on a property under $1M (Under $3M in Toronto or Vancouver) with 35% down and clean credit you should get a mortgage for about market rates +1% or +2% at the most.

If you have 50% then National bank will give your a NIQ mortgage at market rates.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #862
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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If you just payed 100% for a house, that must be tracked somewhere.
The real estate agents involved are supposed to report a suspicious transaction if they feel it relates to money-laundering or terrorist financing.

However, tax evasion and "illegal / unreported" poker income are not reportable suspicions.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:36 PM   #863
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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It depends on the deal. Generally you do pay more in interest but if it is a safe deal then not anything meaningful. I have been looking at buying for a few months. Originally I was interested in a property that was at a high but not unreasonable price for my market and with 30% down I could get a mortgage at 5.4%. When I went to something at a much higher price even with 35% down I was looking at 7-8%. A third property I was interested in was the same price as the first one but because of the type of property it was going to be 2-4% upfront and 11-14% interest.

Generally on a property under $1M (Under $3M in Toronto or Vancouver) with 35% down and clean credit you should get a mortgage for about market rates +1% or +2% at the most.

If you have 50% then National bank will give your a NIQ mortgage at market rates.
I was looking around and found this: "All the borrower needs to do is to provide a copy of their Notice of Assessment to prove that they do not owe the government back taxes." And it says you are required to put down 25%-35% as a down payment. I'm guessing that if you have 35% you pretty much can get any mortgage you want.
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:22 PM   #864
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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The real estate agents involved are supposed to report a suspicious transaction if they feel it relates to money-laundering or terrorist financing.

However, tax evasion and "illegal / unreported" poker income are not reportable suspicions.
Basically if they can trace the funds for the last 90 days you have met this requirement. So if you plan to use money that you keep offshore or in a shoe box somewhere you need to have it deposited and sitting in a Canadian financial institution for at least 90 days.

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Originally Posted by Absolution View Post
I was looking around and found this: "All the borrower needs to do is to provide a copy of their Notice of Assessment to prove that they do not owe the government back taxes." And it says you are required to put down 25%-35% as a down payment. I'm guessing that if you have 35% you pretty much can get any mortgage you want.
I don't have Notice of Assessments and that wasn't an issue. It did remove some lenders who require them but there were others that were fine without them. Obviously if you have them then all the better.

I didn't understand the desire for having a business license. Even if the business is completely inactive and does not generate any income just having a business registration is apparently very helpful. It should be at least two years old. I can't remember if individuals can do the taxes of a corporation or if it requires an accountant -- a few years back I got the idea you needed an accountant but not sure if that was something from law school or something I just imagined. Assuming you can do them yourself I'd just incorporate myself at least a few years before I was considering buying.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:46 PM   #865
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Some conservative lenders require audited statements, which necessitate a CA to sign off on them. Some lenders are ok with non-audited statements
and thus no need for an accountant.

A business number and related documents do add a lot of credibility.

You can even look into getting an agged shell company - bit of a premium but you get 2-3 years of credibility instantly.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:07 AM   #866
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Cars you just buy. You shouldn't be buying $100k+ cars on credit unless you have tax advantages for doing so which poker players do not.

Homes you get a NIQ mortgage. Sometimes called a low-doc / no-doc mortgage. Generally you need to limit yourself to major cities and have 25-35% for the down-payment. If you want to deal with a major bank you need 50%. Build a credit rating using a secured credit card. Have some sort of business license or corporation even if it doesn't do anything.

With respect to how to avoid audits when making a real estate purchase that enters the area I don't comment on but yes there are ways to do it.
Why would you spend 100k on a car when you can finance it at ~5% and put the money into something worth >5%?

The NIQ mortgage may be the only option for a lot of poker players but if you put a NIQ deal side by side with a more conventional mortgage, we're simply getting owned.

I currently have very few assets in Canada but I'm considering making some largish moves over the next 6 months. Where can I get the kind of professional 1 on 1 advice someone in my situation needs?
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:15 AM   #867
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Why would you spend 100k on a car when you can finance it at ~5% and put the money into something worth >5%?
I don't believe in buying luxury items on credit. The point of owning a $100k is to make a statement and that feels disingenuous when you don't actually own the item.

Further, there is the question of finding a risk free >5% investment. I don't believe it is difficult but the vast majority would disagree.

The most important reason though is that it simply isn't worth it. You are looking at making the difference in the spread between the rate of interest you pay on the car loan vs the ROI on the investment. If you are lucky that is $1600 a year. If someone cares about $1600 they shouldn't be buying $100k+ cars.

Quote:
The NIQ mortgage may be the only option for a lot of poker players but if you put a NIQ deal side by side with a more conventional mortgage, we're simply getting owned.
The National mortgage is exactly the same as a conventional mortgage you just need 50%. Otherwise yes you are looking at 1-2% higher interest rates. I'm not sure if I would call that getting owned. Private lenders which is what some people have to use are 2-4% of the value as a closing fee and 10%-14% interest. That is getting owned.

A poker player who is smart will still get a better deal than someone who is buying a home with a conventional mortgage that requires high ratio insurance (most people these days).

Quote:
I currently have very few assets in Canada but I'm considering making some largish moves over the next 6 months. Where can I get the kind of professional 1 on 1 advice someone in my situation needs?
You can't. It isn't like the movies where someone will tell you to go see Nick the Greek at Shady Strip Club and he'll set you up.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:09 PM   #868
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
I don't believe in buying luxury items on credit. The point of owning a $100k is to make a statement and that feels disingenuous when you don't actually own the item.

Further, there is the question of finding a risk free >5% investment. I don't believe it is difficult but the vast majority would disagree.

The most important reason though is that it simply isn't worth it. You are looking at making the difference in the spread between the rate of interest you pay on the car loan vs the ROI on the investment. If you are lucky that is $1600 a year. If someone cares about $1600 they shouldn't be buying $100k+ cars.



The National mortgage is exactly the same as a conventional mortgage you just need 50%. Otherwise yes you are looking at 1-2% higher interest rates. I'm not sure if I would call that getting owned. Private lenders which is what some people have to use are 2-4% of the value as a closing fee and 10%-14% interest. That is getting owned.

A poker player who is smart will still get a better deal than someone who is buying a home with a conventional mortgage that requires high ratio insurance (most people these days).



You can't. It isn't like the movies where someone will tell you to go see Nick the Greek at Shady Strip Club and he'll set you up.
Thanks for the reply.

I think the car thing is more a matter of personal preference. Personally I wouldn't buy a car flat out whether it was 10k or 100k. I made a purchase at Weisach Vancouver a few years back (our luxury car dealer, lambos, ferraris, etc) and came to learn the majority of their buyers are financing their rides in one way or another. I like your style but it's simply a bad financial move to buy a car (a depreciating liability) flat out when you can finance it and put your money elsewhere.

I will have to look into these mortgage options more but I'm really not at all excited about putting down 30%. This makes real estate investment a much less attractive option as I cannot maximize my leverage.

Finally, I am not looking for some shady backdoor scamish advice. I am a Canadian poker player who does not pay taxes on his winnings and will go to war with the CRA over it if necessary. For now I am just looking for someone who can offer me sound advice on the best way to proceed with investments I intend to make with my poker winnings. Do you really think it's not possible to find this person?
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:57 PM   #869
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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(our luxury car dealer, lambos, ferraris, etc) and came to learn the majority of their buyers are financing their rides in one way or another. I like your style but it's simply a bad financial move to buy a car (a depreciating liability) flat out when you can finance it and put your money elsewhere.
Most people finance because they are living outside their means or they are employed in a fashion where there is an advantage to doing so. As a financial decision there is no way that financing is better. Once you factor in the increased cost of insurance on a financed car you need to beat the loan interest rate by at least 2% just to break even. After that you make about $700-800 for every 1% of spread. You'd need to be making double digit returns just to come out $1500-2000 a year ahead and that is before taxes. After taxes you are looking at less than $1000 for all this. I own a >$100k car and buying the car is only the beginning. Maintenance and insurance are such that going though all that to make $20/week is not compatible with owning such a car. This of course assumes that you could make 8-10% on some investment that is not risky.

Quote:
I will have to look into these mortgage options more but I'm really not at all excited about putting down 30%. This makes real estate investment a much less attractive option as I cannot maximize my leverage.
We can not deduct personal residence interest so having leverage on your primary residence is not a good play. Even for someone who can buy a home with 5% they shouldn't if they can afford to make the down-payment large enough to avoid requiring insurance. The math on this is completely unassailable.

Quote:
Finally, I am not looking for some shady backdoor scamish advice. I am a Canadian poker player who does not pay taxes on his winnings and will go to war with the CRA over it if necessary. For now I am just looking for someone who can offer me sound advice on the best way to proceed with investments I intend to make with my poker winnings. Do you really think it's not possible to find this person?
Sorry. I misinterpreted your question. I thought you wanted to hide income. For something like that yes. Someone like TorontoCFE would be better qualified to direct you. I'd likely just send you to Gowlings since they seem to have a small gaming division and I've always liked them as a firm. I'm still not clear on if it is legal advice or wealth management advice that you are seeking.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:25 PM   #870
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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it's simply a bad financial move to buy a car (a depreciating liability) flat out when you can finance it and put your money elsewhere.
Strictly speaking, anything that depreciates is a bad thing to put money into but if you need to spend big $ on a car, at least throw it into a corporation so that some of the amortization is deductible.

I suppose financing might make sense if you have other possible high yield investments, but even then you should likely buy the other investment and borrow against them to outright buy the car. The other investment likely is better security for a loan and thus a lower interest cost than a car that declines in value instantly.

Depending on whether you want legal, asset management or accounting advice, I might be able to come up with a referral.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:19 AM   #871
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I'm not exactly sure which category that which I'm looking for falls under.

My current situation is that I'm 24 and the last time I filed was 5 years ago when I worked 3-4 months at a regular job. Now that I have decided I'm not going to declare my poker winnings I have questions like "should I even file at all?" "if I do file, do I just enter in a bunch of 0's or is there something else I need to do?.

I have other questions that are not related to taxes but could be. My current expectation is 200kish per year. I would like to begin aggressively investing that income in the amounts of 10-25k / month. So I have questions like "given my current situation, what is the best way to invest this income?".

I also have questions related to having a high undeclared income like "How do I get a decent sized credit card?"


I hear a lot of different answers to questions like the ones above and I'm not sure who to listen to. It'd be really nice to have a professional who will have a solid answer waiting for questions like these. Who should I be talking to?

Thanks again guys.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:55 AM   #872
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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I'm not exactly sure which category that which I'm looking for falls under.

My current situation is that I'm 24 and the last time I filed was 5 years ago when I worked 3-4 months at a regular job. Now that I have decided I'm not going to declare my poker winnings I have questions like "should I even file at all?" "if I do file, do I just enter in a bunch of 0's or is there something else I need to do?.

I have other questions that are not related to taxes but could be. My current expectation is 200kish per year. I would like to begin aggressively investing that income in the amounts of 10-25k / month. So I have questions like "given my current situation, what is the best way to invest this income?".

I also have questions related to having a high undeclared income like "How do I get a decent sized credit card?"


I hear a lot of different answers to questions like the ones above and I'm not sure who to listen to. It'd be really nice to have a professional who will have a solid answer waiting for questions like these. Who should I be talking to?

Thanks again guys.

If you don't have income to declare then don't file a return unless asked to by the CRA unless the GST rebate means much to you.

Investing decisions require a lot of information that is hard to get in post.
What is your risk tolerance, when do you want access to the principal, what are your future cash needs, etc.

For a credit card, you could just apply for a basic one and go from there. If turned down you can go witha secured card to build a credit rating.
You could also choose to wait until you have some investments that show a return to help your income determination.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:11 AM   #873
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by WTFRUDOING View Post
My current situation is that I'm 24 and the last time I filed was 5 years ago when I worked 3-4 months at a regular job. Now that I have decided I'm not going to declare my poker winnings I have questions like "should I even file at all?" "if I do file, do I just enter in a bunch of 0's or is there something else I need to do?.
Well now that you have a job you have no choice but to file since I assume in 3-4 months of employment your income from that job exceeds the basic personal amount.

With respect to should you go back and file your previous years that is up to you. Doing so could get your some small amount of money. About $250 in GST refunds per year. In Ontario it would also get you $100 a year. If you paid rent in Ontario you would also get $250 + 2% of your rent back per year. If that is worth it to you then you should file. Basically you just go to the CRA site -- print out the forms for the specific years you wish to file -- fill them out. It isn't hard and anyone who can read English and is not ******ed should be able to filt them out without any problem.

If you wish to avail yourself of the TFSA either now or in the future you must file for 2009 and for every year you wish to be granted the yearly amount.

Quote:
I also have questions related to having a high undeclared income like "How do I get a decent sized credit card?"
That depends on a lot of things. Most importantly what kind of credit history you have. If you have a good enough credit history a credit card company will not ask for proof of income so you just apply for a reasonable card -- basically anything but the black or platinum cards.

If you are asking this question though I assume you have no credit history. In that case apply for the Capital One secured mastercard. You'll get a $500 limit in exchange for a $150-500 deposit. As soon as you get it ask for an increase of deposit form. Fill out the form and send it back with $2000. Your limit will mow be $2500 secured against your $2150-2500 deposit. You'll get the deposit back once you have demonstrated your are not a liability -- usually a year and a half to two years.

Now you need a second credit card. Again it will have to be secured. Your options are:

HomeEquity or People's Trust : both offer easy to get secured credit cards with up to $10,000 limit on a 1:1 deposit requirement. The negatives are that the cards have monthly fees and that everyone will know you are a sketchy individual using a secured card.

CIBC / RBC / Van City : best option in my opinion. They offer secured credit cards up to any limit at 1:1 deposits. Give them $10k and get a credit card with a $10k limit.

Scotia : Same except they require 110% deposit but it you already bank with them then not worth changing.

HSBC : offers secured cards but they want 300% deposit which is a little ****ed up.

If you check with the smaller credit unions they all tend to off secured cards but again most of them want a deposit to limit ratio that doesn't make sense.

Once you have these just use them responsibly. Keep the balance low and never make a late payment. Once you establish a credit history you are good to go.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:38 AM   #874
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by TorontoCFE View Post
If you don't have income to declare then don't file a return unless asked to by the CRA unless the GST rebate means much to you.

Investing decisions require a lot of information that is hard to get in post.
What is your risk tolerance, when do you want access to the principal, what are your future cash needs, etc.

For a credit card, you could just apply for a basic one and go from there. If turned down you can go witha secured card to build a credit rating.
You could also choose to wait until you have some investments that show a return to help your income determination.
I've had MSP sending me mail for 2 years about owed monthly premiums. It's gotten up to about 3k. They told me not paying won't effect my credit (for now) and that I can apply for premium assistance if my income is low enough. This would require filing my taxes for the last 5 years and attaching my NOA's to my application for premium assistance.

The reason I have not taken any action on this yet is because I'm not sure what route is in my best interest. It seems that I either file for the last 5 years and apply for premium assistance or I just pay my debt for MSP. I'm not sure which is in my best interest. I would have a moral issue with applying for premium assistance but I don't use my care card for anything. I pay out of pocket for everything.

Sorry that was a little long winded... I guess in short I'd like to know "Now that I've decided not to declare my poker income, would it be in my best interest to file no income for the last 5 years to remove my premium assistance debt or would I be better off just paying the debt out of my pocket?"

Regarding my investment needs. It's all about growth. I have a very high risk tolerance, I don't need any money back for a long time, and although I have made the decision not to declare my poker income, I do not wish to draw attention to myself.

Thanks again.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:49 AM   #875
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Well now that you have a job you have no choice but to file since I assume in 3-4 months of employment your income from that job exceeds the basic personal amount.

With respect to should you go back and file your previous years that is up to you. Doing so could get your some small amount of money. About $250 in GST refunds per year. In Ontario it would also get you $100 a year. If you paid rent in Ontario you would also get $250 + 2% of your rent back per year. If that is worth it to you then you should file. Basically you just go to the CRA site -- print out the forms for the specific years you wish to file -- fill them out. It isn't hard and anyone who can read English and is not ******ed should be able to filt them out without any problem.

If you wish to avail yourself of the TFSA either now or in the future you must file for 2009 and for every year you wish to be granted the yearly amount.



That depends on a lot of things. Most importantly what kind of credit history you have. If you have a good enough credit history a credit card company will not ask for proof of income so you just apply for a reasonable card -- basically anything but the black or platinum cards.

If you are asking this question though I assume you have no credit history. In that case apply for the Capital One secured mastercard. You'll get a $500 limit in exchange for a $150-500 deposit. As soon as you get it ask for an increase of deposit form. Fill out the form and send it back with $2000. Your limit will mow be $2500 secured against your $2150-2500 deposit. You'll get the deposit back once you have demonstrated your are not a liability -- usually a year and a half to two years.

Now you need a second credit card. Again it will have to be secured. Your options are:

HomeEquity or People's Trust : both offer easy to get secured credit cards with up to $10,000 limit on a 1:1 deposit requirement. The negatives are that the cards have monthly fees and that everyone will know you are a sketchy individual using a secured card.

CIBC / RBC / Van City : best option in my opinion. They offer secured credit cards up to any limit at 1:1 deposits. Give them $10k and get a credit card with a $10k limit.

Scotia : Same except they require 110% deposit but it you already bank with them then not worth changing.

HSBC : offers secured cards but they want 300% deposit which is a little ****ed up.

If you check with the smaller credit unions they all tend to off secured cards but again most of them want a deposit to limit ratio that doesn't make sense.

Once you have these just use them responsibly. Keep the balance low and never make a late payment. Once you establish a credit history you are good to go.
My credit history is fair. I've been monitoring it on equifax for the last few months. I have one CIBC credit card for 8k and a future shop card for 1.5k. I have one missed payment of over 30 days in the last 5 years and I've rode my balances for 6-12 months at a time making close to minimum payments or just automatically maxing my card again. I guess I'd like another card to continue developing my credit, will these secure cards help me develop credit?

I live in BC and I'm pretty interested in real estate investment. I'm confident I can choose some good rental properties and would like to buy a number of them as a long term investment. If I'm forced to put down over 10% and run into a lot of trouble when looking to get a mortgage on my 2nd and 3rd place then this route becomes much less attractive. I'm in the process of propositioning my family members on cosigning. I'm also curious what kind of attention I will be drawing to myself by investing in property.

Thanks again guys.
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