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Old 08-09-2009, 01:37 PM   #726
noidea555
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Hey guys, I don't know where else to put this question, but I think I remember hearing something about Canadians not being able to use neteller. Is that still the case or can we use it again?

Thanks.
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:43 PM   #727
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

No neteller for Canadians
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:32 PM   #728
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I'm a canadian student and I play poker, I earn some thousands a month... will Revenue Canada chase me?
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:09 PM   #729
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastertop101 View Post
I'm a canadian student and I play poker, I earn some thousands a month... will Revenue Canada chase me?
NO In my opinion you would have an argument for being a recreational player.
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:37 PM   #730
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

say i'm a pro and cra goes after me, and i'm forced to show that i'm a recreational player

would i be boned at that point? i can't find a good way to prove a lack of skill..
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:33 PM   #731
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Chaser8 View Post
say i'm a pro and cra goes after me, and i'm forced to show that i'm a recreational player

would i be boned at that point? i can't find a good way to prove a lack of skill..
Remember you said your a pro. Only source of income?

If they found the income your hooped if its all you do.
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:01 PM   #732
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen View Post
Remember you said your a pro. Only source of income?

If they found the income your hooped if its all you do.
That is, you might be, if you don't have a congenial legal opinion.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:27 PM   #733
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

hey tax guru

I have been a successful online player for 4 years that has no job besides it the last couple years so obv poker is more sole source of income.

I have talked with accountants since I have made a decent amount and was thinking of using my poker as a business as was mentioned in this thread. However, I am asking do you think this will make them take notice of me and now look at the last few years and back tax me? where as if I just kept waiting to see what happens they might not notice? So I would start declaring poker as a business starting this year and skip the first few years is what I am getting at.

Second, is there any accountants known for expertise in this department in Toronto?
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:54 AM   #734
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by thejoker100 View Post

Second, is there any accountants known for expertise in this department in Toronto?
Yes, Ben Alarie at U of T IIRC.
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:08 AM   #735
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Ben Alarie is a Law professor and not an accountant. From casual reading of these forums it seems that he has advised at least some members of the 2+2 community with regards to the taxation of online poker. His publication record includes an analysis of the feasibility of taxing online gambling where he proposes that Canada should consider going the route that the UK has gone.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1025588
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:51 AM   #736
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

i got out of school last year and haven't filed my taxes for the past 2 or 3 years. i probably withdrew ~15-20k in the past 2 years (couple of thousand here, couple of thousand there) from poker. do i have to be worried about the tax man coming after me?
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:41 AM   #737
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfootball_84 View Post
i got out of school last year and haven't filed my taxes for the past 2 or 3 years. i probably withdrew ~15-20k in the past 2 years (couple of thousand here, couple of thousand there) from poker. do i have to be worried about the tax man coming after me?
Yes. I expect they are forming a special task force and as soon as they coordinate with JTF2 they will be on their way.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:58 AM   #738
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

and if u have cashed off liek a few hundred thousand I assume u will be higher on their list? and no way to avoid them going back years to tax u?
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:11 AM   #739
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

As of this year, poker is my only source of income (in the 100k range).
I've got a family, and will probably buy a house / get a mortgage before the end of the year.

I'm just trying to weigh the pros and cons of filing v not filing.
Bascially, if I don't file and the CRA comes after me, are there likely to be heavy penalties (or worse) involved?
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:50 AM   #740
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Assuming you are not actively trying to hide the winnings it shouldn't be a big deal. What you didn't pay plus interest and a small penalty would be the worst outcome.

One negative is that when they estimate your winnings they are going to overstate it. I don't have a big sample but I know a few people who were doing cash jobs and understating their income and they got caught. In every case when CRA estimated the unreported amount it was higher than what they actually didn't report. The onus is then on you to establish that their number is too high.

The second issue is with respect for you plan to own a home. You can get a mortgage with no reportable income as long as you don't exceed a 65-75% LTV but you will be paying higher interest and possibly a lender / broker fee. In most cases it is still better to just accept these higher costs rather than pay taxes.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:11 PM   #741
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I am in the low 6 figure annual range and keep most of my roll online...only taking out money when I need it. I now want to start taking that money off and invest/buy a house. I don't really care at this point if the CRA "comes after me," I will pay whatever I owe them. My first question is, what exactly would I pay them? Would I be forced to pay the maximum personal income or can I get around this, somehow? Also, would I be able to write any expenses off, such as computer, internet, etc in that time frame? If you were in my shoes, would you advise?

a)Keep doing what you're doing, and if the CRA comes knocking, agree to pay?

b)Take off as much as you like and invest/do whatever the hell you want with it, and if the CRA comes knocking, agree to pay?

c)Talk to an accountant that specializes in gambling asap and seriously consider his/her advice?
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:27 PM   #742
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlurstOfTimes View Post
I am in the low 6 figure annual range and keep most of my roll online...only taking out money when I need it. I now want to start taking that money off and invest/buy a house. I don't really care at this point if the CRA "comes after me," I will pay whatever I owe them. My first question is, what exactly would I pay them? Would I be forced to pay the maximum personal income or can I get around this, somehow? Also, would I be able to write any expenses off, such as computer, internet, etc in that time frame? If you were in my shoes, would you advise?

a)Keep doing what you're doing, and if the CRA comes knocking, agree to pay?

b)Take off as much as you like and invest/do whatever the hell you want with it, and if the CRA comes knocking, agree to pay?

c)Talk to an accountant that specializes in gambling asap and seriously consider his/her advice?
It all depends on the background and context. Contacting a lawyer or accountant with relevant expertise would be helpful. To voluntarily comply you would file amended returns for the past several years reporting the income from a source you've made from poker (if any, since "income" is definitely not the same thing as "winnings").
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:49 PM   #743
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

This never seems to get answered (even though it was asked again), but if filling, can one deduct expenses such as:

a) Rent/Mortgage
b) Computer/Monitors etc.
c) Internet Connection
d) Food
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:58 PM   #744
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy2 View Post
This never seems to get answered (even though it was asked again), but if filling, can one deduct expenses such as:

a) Rent/Mortgage
b) Computer/Monitors etc.
c) Internet Connection
d) Food
a) No though you can deduct a % of your utulities and 100% of your internet. Also % of maintenance. If you have 4 rooms and one is your office than 25%. If you deduct a % of your mortgage than you need to calim the capital gain when you sell. Never in your best interest.
b) Yes
c)yes
d)NO

Also poker books magazines Yes
If you drive to a casino you could deduct a % of your car costs.
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:02 AM   #745
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy2 View Post
This never seems to get answered (even though it was asked again), but if filling, can one deduct expenses such as:

a) Rent/Mortgage
b) Computer/Monitors etc.
c) Internet Connection
d) Food
if you can't figure this out on your own, you def need an accountant.

a) yes, but something around 25% of yearly total (utilities included).

b) obviously yes. but you also need to calculate CCA and fill up relevant schedule.

c) yes

d) unless you're constantly travelling for poker purposes you can't deduct this one.

Last edited by blindsRobber; 08-18-2009 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:09 AM   #746
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfootball_84 View Post
i got out of school last year and haven't filed my taxes for the past 2 or 3 years. i probably withdrew ~15-20k in the past 2 years (couple of thousand here, couple of thousand there) from poker. do i have to be worried about the tax man coming after me?
if what you made from poker was your only (or most of your) income in the past 3 years then not filing is a huge mistake, for the following reasons:

1. You're missing out on thousands worth of education credits that could offset taxes to be paid in the future. And this is regardless of whether you declare your poker income or not.

2. if you decide to declare the poker income and you don't have any other income, you're still below the basic credit space of 10k per year (you won't get taxed on your first 10K in income anyways).

3. you're losing valuable rrsp deduction space that you could use in the future to offset your taxable income.

you can still file for previous years and take advantage of these benefits.
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:48 AM   #747
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

4) You need to file taxes to take advantage of the new TFSA

5) He is not getting his GST rebate (~$200 a year)

6) If he pays rent and lives in a province that gives rent credits he is missing out on those.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:12 PM   #748
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Unrelated to poker tax question.

I was presented with the claim that it is possible to set up your mortgage interest as tax deductible.

I can't figure out how. I thought I had it figured out but no. Does anyone know?
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:08 PM   #749
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
Unrelated to poker tax question.

I was presented with the claim that it is possible to set up your mortgage interest as tax deductible.

I can't figure out how. I thought I had it figured out but no. Does anyone know?
have you seen this?
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:36 AM   #750
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

That wasn't what they meant. That is just moving the debt servicing costs from the home to your investments. They claim to actually make the mortgage itself deductible. The only way to do that is to somehow make the property an investment so I figured have something like having a corporation or trust own the home and rent it to myself but then you run into capital gain issues unless that is the catch. They never did say that manoeuvrer would not subject you to capital gains only that the servicing costs would be tax deductible.
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