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Old 10-28-2008, 04:47 PM   #551
jrockhaf
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

could you give me an example of laundering out of you poker account
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:55 PM   #552
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Unfortunately I can't. I don't know if it violates the ToS for 2P2 but I generally don't feel comfortable talking about stuff like that in public or with strangers for multiple reasons.
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:49 AM   #553
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by jrockhaf View Post
could you give me an example of laundering out of you poker account
There are piles of ways of trying to launder money. The more the government looks for it, the more complex people make the trail.

No one is going to give real advice on how to do it because they would be part of a criminal enterprise.
Don't forget, not paying tax means you may get hit with a penalty if caught. Laundering money can add an extended vacation on the government tab to what you're looking at.
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:17 PM   #554
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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could you give me an example of laundering out of you poker account

cash some of your checks at money mart and deposit a limited amount at the bank. Use cash to pay for day to day.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:48 PM   #555
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Here is a quick question. I was wondering about buying stocks or investments and if they look into this and if they raise red flags. Thanks
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:47 AM   #556
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

You really have to be more specific. How much stock? How much income have you reported over the years?

Buying stock itself is not going to be the issue. Explaining how you acquired the funds for a $200k portfolio with no income though is going to be difficult. Remember investment income is taxable and you will have to report that. Based on your investment income CRA can get a pretty good idea of how much money you have.
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Old 11-05-2008, 01:38 PM   #557
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
You really have to be more specific. How much stock? How much income have you reported over the years?

Buying stock itself is not going to be the issue. Explaining how you acquired the funds for a $200k portfolio with no income though is going to be difficult. Remember investment income is taxable and you will have to report that. Based on your investment income CRA can get a pretty good idea of how much money you have.

I was looking at investing maybe 20k or something like that. I had been working fulltime for about 10 years or so and worked a bit this year before quitting to play fulltime. So i will have a T4 this year but i won't have anything next, also i was making under 50k at my old job if that is relevant.

Another question is if you have a big sum of money in your account lets say around 100k what should you be doing with this. It just seems like a waste for it just to sit there. This is why i thought of investing a portion of it so at least it is working for you but the trouble is reg flags so idk.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:04 PM   #558
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Having $100k in a savings account or having $100k in stocks is the same risk. After all CRA knows what banks pay in interest and since your interest is income if you file taxes they can work backwards from your interest income to figure out your account balance.

I personally think having more than what you spend in 5-6 months in cash is bad. You should have your money invested and doing something.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:56 AM   #559
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Absolutely awesome thread. This issue has been on my mind for as long as poker has been my main income which is over a year, and i asked accountants and lawyers and basically came to the same conclusion:
poker is taxable... but revenue canada doesnt look into it.. yet

As I understand it poker is legally taxable but a case has never been brought to court. However, since poker has grown so much in the last few years it is probably only a matter of time.

It would seem like a good idea then to become a resident in a jurisdiction with low or zero income tax. If I was then audited I would only have to pay taxes on those times I was in Canada. I dont really want to shiver through another canadian winter anyways.

Previously I had done some research on this and I found that to be a foriegn resident you had to give up all ties to canada: apartment, telephone, club memberships, government health plan. Pretty much everthing except your passport I believe. You can then spend only 2 months a year in canada and have to live at least 6 months in your declared country of residence.

Does anybody know more information on this??? If I planned to do this does it work on a yearly basis? ie would I have to do it for the tax year 2009 and could not do it part way through a tax year? Also anybody know how easy/difficult it is to become a resident of, say, the bahamas or other tax havens?
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:07 AM   #560
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Determination of an Individual's Residence Status

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/it...onsolid-e.html
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:54 AM   #561
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
.

Small things I would do would be don't use credit cards,
Why is this? Can the CRA track credit card purchases? How do they do this?

Also, here's a question got you:

I made about 100k this year playing poker, it is my sole source of income. I know I have to pay taxes on it and I will but what about my wife who plays poker as a hobby and she ended up making about $27K This year.

Does she have to pay taxes on her income? She has been employed full time for the past 6 years by the goverment as a paramedic. She works about 40-50 hours each week.

Does she have to pay taxes on her income?
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:08 AM   #562
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Why is this? Can the CRA track credit card purchases? How do they do this?
Once they decide to do a net worth assessment they can get access to your credit card records. They can ever search your house to see what kind of stuff you own.



Quote:
I made about 100k this year playing poker, it is my sole source of income. I know I have to pay taxes on it and I will but what about my wife who plays poker as a hobby and she ended up making about $27K This year.

Does she have to pay taxes on her income? She has been employed full time for the past 6 years by the goverment as a paramedic. She works about 40-50 hours each week.

Does she have to pay taxes on her income?
Missing too many details to give a definite answer but probably yes. If she has a reasonable expectation of profit (winning player) then yes. If she was basically screwing around and then hit a big tournament win then no. If she has six losing / break-even months and then just one amazing month then no.
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Old 11-07-2008, 03:52 PM   #563
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I have a particular situation here. In the summer of 2007 I was refused entry in the U.S. Like a noob I told them I played poker for a living. That wasn't the reason for being refused, since I have gone back to the U.S. twice since. Knowing that what I had told them was on file, I told them both times when I returned that I play poker for a living. Both times they were cool about it and let me through.

Now, I intend to spend two to six months in Las Vegas starting in January 2009. Entering the U.S. I will have to say the truth once again about poker. I don't think I will have a problem going through. THE BIG QUESTION IS: What the hell do I say to Canadian officials upon my return?
1) Can they see on file that I told U.S. authorities I play poker for a living? My guess is probably not. More simply put, what do you guys say to border officials when returning from Vegas (or anywhere else as a matter of fact)?
2) Let's say I make 100k in six months there, how can I avoid being taxed?

Many thanks for answering this!
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Old 11-07-2008, 04:39 PM   #564
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind11 View Post
I have a particular situation here. In the summer of 2007 I was refused entry in the U.S. Like a noob I told them I played poker for a living. That wasn't the reason for being refused, since I have gone back to the U.S. twice since. Knowing that what I had told them was on file, I told them both times when I returned that I play poker for a living. Both times they were cool about it and let me through.

Now, I intend to spend two to six months in Las Vegas starting in January 2009. Entering the U.S. I will have to say the truth once again about poker. I don't think I will have a problem going through. THE BIG QUESTION IS: What the hell do I say to Canadian officials upon my return?
1) Can they see on file that I told U.S. authorities I play poker for a living? My guess is probably not. More simply put, what do you guys say to border officials when returning from Vegas (or anywhere else as a matter of fact)?
2) Let's say I make 100k in six months there, how can I avoid being taxed?

Many thanks for answering this!
I think your going to have trouble crossing the border if you tell them you play poker for a living and going for six months.

Last summer I got laid off from my job and decided to take a trip by myself to California/Las Vegas to visit my father who is an american and lives in California. I never had a problem crossing to the US and do so monthly. When I told them I was going for six weeks to visit my father they pulled me over and kept me for two hours asking a million questions. They wanted a copy of my mortgage (I'm assuming to make sure I'm coming back to Canada). I can only imagine what their going to say if your going for six months and your a pro player.

When I came back to Canada I told them I was gone for 3 months vacation and they asked what I do for a living and question why I was gone for 3 months but let me go fairly easy. Its crossing into the US I would be more worried about.
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:34 PM   #565
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

If you are going for an extended period of time they will want to confirm that you can afford to support yourself. They also might want to make sure you have sufficient ties to Canada that you are returning.

I'm not sure what they keep on file. I use to cross the US boarder at least weekly when I played live and I have never had any issue. I usually tell them I'm a lawyer or articling student. I've alternated between the two and it never caused an issue. The only time I ever had trouble crossing was when I told them I was unemployed.

Regarding the $100k and tax I don't see how that is relevant. If you plan to bring the winnings back in cash then you have to declare it. It is no big deal. If you bring it back as a cheque then you don't have to tell them anything at the boarder. In the end the money is going to end up in a Canadian financial institution and that is when you have to worry about CRA but you'd have that problem if you made $100k at Fallsview or Vegas.
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Old 11-09-2008, 06:07 PM   #566
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Thank you both for your input. I think what I'll do since the US has it on file that I play poker for a living is I'll tell them I am going there for a month. I'll bring evidence that I can support myself financially doing that. Since it isn't illegal and not their business to tax me on it, I cannot see how they would ultimately refuse me entry. And once I'm in I AM allowed to stay up to six months, so I'll go with the flow in Vegas. As for my return I'll say I'm a student on a leave of absence (which is true) and had saved enough money for a long road trip to the U.S.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:29 PM   #567
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Curious, I'm under the understanding at this point that one must pay taxes on poker winnings while residing in Canada. What if one leaves Canada to live abroad in an area where there are no income tax, and while living there that person earns an income playing poker and then later moves back to Canada. I understand if you become an expat then you wouldn't be taxed, but what if it's for a duration of less than that to make you be considered an expat?

Just curious.
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:31 AM   #568
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by JechtSphere View Post
What if one leaves Canada to live abroad in an area where there are no income tax, and while living there that person earns an income playing poker and then later moves back to Canada.
The answer is that it depends on whether one remains "resident in Canada" during that period. Canada taxes Canadian residents on worldwide income. If your winnings are business income and you're a resident, then it doesn't matter where your winnings arise geographically (subject to the terms of whatever tax treaty or treaties may apply).

"Residency" is not straightforward to determine and is fact driven. It also on occasion will turn on the presence of a tax treaty with the other jurisdiction (where both countries are claiming you're resident for tax purposes).
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:54 PM   #569
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Ok so I'm getting my taxes in order this year early so i don't scramble at the last minute like i did last year and i had a few questions:

1) My accountant suggested we might be better off filing a flat per Km fee for car expenses this year as opposed to last year where I kept a mileage log and saved all auto receipts and then wrote off a % of the vehicle for poker.
Anyone have any experience with this?

2) GST #, My accountant was going to look into this but he suggested that it might be benificial to register for a GST# and be reimbursed for any expenses I occured that I had to pay GST on. Anyone have any insight on this?
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:00 AM   #570
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

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Originally Posted by NL__Fool View Post
Ok so I'm getting my taxes in order this year early so i don't scramble at the last minute like i did last year and i had a few questions:

1) My accountant suggested we might be better off filing a flat per Km fee for car expenses this year as opposed to last year where I kept a mileage log and saved all auto receipts and then wrote off a % of the vehicle for poker.
Anyone have any experience with this?

2) GST #, My accountant was going to look into this but he suggested that it might be benificial to register for a GST# and be reimbursed for any expenses I occured that I had to pay GST on. Anyone have any insight on this?
There is a slight benefit to registering for GST. You would get back the GST you pay on business - related purchases and you don't (presumably) charge GST on anything so you could get your 5% back. The question is whether 5% of your purchases is worth the administrative effort of filing quarterly.
this depends entirely on how much you are expensing that has GST on it.

For mileage, you still have to keep a log whether you use the detailed method or the simplified method or you won't know how many kms you drove for business. A lot of the decision on which method to use comes down to what % of the time you use the car for business and whether you lease it or own it.
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Old 02-22-2009, 05:33 PM   #571
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I want to know something. The numbers are random obv.

Lets say i made 50k this year with poker. Its my primary income and I do not have any other sort of incomes. So basically I would need to pay taxes. BUT.

Lets say Ive traveled around the world and it costed me 30 000$ during 2008. All those travels were because of my job (poker) so business trip where I expected to win money but didnt. Ive also lost 5000$ in tournaments and 5000$ in staking people. Which are both related with poker.

So I should say Ive won 10 000$ with poker? Since its global income.



And something else with the windfall thingy.

Lets say my main income is from the online website X in 2008. Ive made 35 000$ from that website over the period of 12months. But lets say I played for 5days on FTP and won 20 000$ over that period and cashed out right away. So I think criteria F would work here. I didnt expect to win and its not a source where Im usually getting money from. Same thing happens on Pokerstars where I win 50 000$ over 3days and dont do anything there afterwards.

So my income would be 35 000$ on the website X ?


Another tax question.

Lets say my friend "Roger" (obv random name) is a drug dealer. He made 60 000$ in 2008. He bought a 20 000$ car because he needs it for his job. He also bought 10 000$ in lights for grow and pays 10 000$ in electricity whatnot for the rest of the grow. He also bought 5 000$ worth of equipment needed for his job (scale whatnot). Does he have to declare his incomes? I mean obv he wont say what he clearly does but he still wants to pay taxes. Does Roger have to pay from his 60 000$? Or 15 000$? Can he incorporates himself? Its his primary income and do not do anything else. pretty much like my situation but illegal version of it lol.

Last edited by theplux; 02-22-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:43 PM   #572
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

And ive another question regarding taxes and province.

Does anyone know if laws differ from a Province to another one? It seems you guys have CRA stories and stuff but in Quebec none is paying taxes (all the mid or high rollers) and we have 0 stories.

Am I missing something or is Quebec the best province for this lol? Or im just being result oriented.
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:07 PM   #573
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Income tax is administered by the federal government so being in QC is of no benefit. Since the amount of tax you pay varies from province to province and QC has one of the highest rates it is probably the worse place to be should you eventually get audited.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:26 AM   #574
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by theplux View Post
I want to know something. The numbers are random obv.

Lets say i made 50k this year with poker. Its my primary income and I do not have any other sort of incomes. So basically I would need to pay taxes. BUT.

Lets say Ive traveled around the world and it costed me 30 000$ during 2008. All those travels were because of my job (poker) so business trip where I expected to win money but didnt. Ive also lost 5000$ in tournaments and 5000$ in staking people. Which are both related with poker.

So I should say Ive won 10 000$ with poker? Since its global income.
in your T1 form you would declare your gross income, and there are lines to declare your expenses. make sure you keep copies of receipts. i'm not sure if you're able to declare hotel and travel 100%, but they're legit expenses, meals can also be declared (50% if they're for business purposes). so buy someone a meal on your trips and declare it. you can claim you were dicussing poker.

tourney entries obv a business expense. staking is a bit tricky. coz you need to prove that you're staking. i think a contract would do the trick and a money trail (write a check to the person).

Quote:
And something else with the windfall thingy.

Lets say my main income is from the online website X in 2008. Ive made 35 000$ from that website over the period of 12months. But lets say I played for 5days on FTP and won 20 000$ over that period and cashed out right away. So I think criteria F would work here. I didnt expect to win and its not a source where Im usually getting money from. Same thing happens on Pokerstars where I win 50 000$ over 3days and dont do anything there afterwards.

So my income would be 35 000$ on the website X ?
i doubt you can get away with this. unless the site you're depositing to has other games, other than poker, then you can argue you felt like playing blackjack on party poker and got lucky. if it's poker, and you've already acknowledged that you meet the criteria to pay tax on it, then i can't imagine you'd be able to sell this argument to an auditor.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:45 AM   #575
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by theplux View Post
I want to know something. The numbers are random obv.

Lets say i made 50k this year with poker. Its my primary income and I do not have any other sort of incomes. So basically I would need to pay taxes. BUT.

Lets say Ive traveled around the world and it costed me 30 000$ during 2008. All those travels were because of my job (poker) so business trip where I expected to win money but didnt. Ive also lost 5000$ in tournaments and 5000$ in staking people. Which are both related with poker.

So I should say Ive won 10 000$ with poker? Since its global income.



And something else with the windfall thingy.

Lets say my main income is from the online website X in 2008. Ive made 35 000$ from that website over the period of 12months. But lets say I played for 5days on FTP and won 20 000$ over that period and cashed out right away. So I think criteria F would work here. I didnt expect to win and its not a source where Im usually getting money from. Same thing happens on Pokerstars where I win 50 000$ over 3days and dont do anything there afterwards.

So my income would be 35 000$ on the website X ?


Another tax question.

Lets say my friend "Roger" (obv random name) is a drug dealer. He made 60 000$ in 2008. He bought a 20 000$ car because he needs it for his job. He also bought 10 000$ in lights for grow and pays 10 000$ in electricity whatnot for the rest of the grow. He also bought 5 000$ worth of equipment needed for his job (scale whatnot). Does he have to declare his incomes? I mean obv he wont say what he clearly does but he still wants to pay taxes. Does Roger have to pay from his 60 000$? Or 15 000$? Can he incorporates himself? Its his primary income and do not do anything else. pretty much like my situation but illegal version of it lol.
Your going to pay taxes on your net income which is going to be 10k with the figures you posted.

Simplified:
On your tax return you list your gross earnings which is $50k minus expenses
of $40k = Net income of $10k

You then pay taxes on $10K which is your net income.
In addition to income tax you will also have to pay CPP contributons twice, which is really dumb but you are considered self employed and have to pay your share of the CPP plus the business has to match your share and since you are the business-boom, you get to pay twice!
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