Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread - Page 19 - Poker Legislation

Yes. Self-employed individuals and those married to people who are self-employed have an extra 6 weeks.

If you owe money the interest does start accumulating from May 1.

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05-05-2008 , 01:00 AM

#452

shogun_rua

stranger

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 10

i'm meeting with a tax lawyer this week in Toronto who has experience dealing with full time poker players. So if any of you have any questions you would like me to ask him i'll post whatever I find out.

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05-05-2008 , 04:14 PM

#453

aslowjoe

adept

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 932

What about a situation where a person has a regular job earning $100,000 per year. He also has luck sacked his way into winning $50,000 per year for the last 3 years?

Is there any red flags that this person might trip? If audited what do you think the outcome might be?

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05-10-2008 , 12:10 PM

#454

shogun_rua

stranger

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 10

Spoke with a tax lawyer this week and he confirmed that if you play poker for a living it is 100% taxable and that the CRA has already gone after players who have not filed their poker income. He also mentioned the CRA is starting to crack down on people who don't file and that they don't give a **** how much of a grey area this is.

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05-10-2008 , 01:10 PM

#455

Henry17

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Mostly because it isn't a grey area at all. I'm glad someone else confirmed it and I guarantee there isn't a single tax lawyer who will say otherwise.

I've also heard that CRA is going to start promoting a snitch line / website. It wasn't from the most reliable of sources so I wouldn't put much credence in it but that would certainly be a bad development for poker players who choose to not report their income.

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05-15-2008 , 02:31 PM

#456

pfc_ivan12323232

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4,132

Is online gambling allowed in Canada or no?

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05-15-2008 , 02:46 PM

#457

Henry17

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfc_ivan12323232

Is online gambling allowed in Canada or no?

It is legal.

That isn't really a tax issue as CRA will tax both legal and illegal income sources.

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05-15-2008 , 02:46 PM

#458

pfc_ivan12323232

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry17

It is legal.

My bank just called me and told me that they cannot process my bankwire transfer cuz its coming from an online gambling site, and she also told me that online gambling is illegal in Canada. Wtf?

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05-15-2008 , 02:50 PM

#459

Henry17

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfc_ivan12323232

My bank just called me and told me that they cannot process my bankwire transfer cuz its coming from an online gambling site, and she also told me that online gambling is illegal in Canada. Wtf?

There is nothing in the Criminal Code that makes gambling online illegal. It would be illegal to run a online poker site in Canada but not to play on one. I have no idea what your bank is talking about.

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05-15-2008 , 03:10 PM

#460

Henry17

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Do you use one of the five major banks?

Other than the bank employee is an idiot the only other explanation would be if you use a small bank that does not have it's own SWIFT number and instead piggybacks on a US bank for wire transfers. This is quite common for small US banks who piggyback on major US banks and I've never heard of a Canadian bank doing this but you never know what those small credit unions do.

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05-15-2008 , 03:10 PM

#461

pfc_ivan12323232

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry17

Thanks for this info. I guess Scotia Bank just wants to stop me from making any other transfers to my bank account. Gonna switch to TD anyway.

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05-15-2008 , 03:25 PM

#462

Henry17

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Scotia Bank is by far the worst bank. I had them freeze my accounts for suspicious behaviour twice.

Canada Trust was by far the best bank but since they merged with TD they are only average. They have been very helpful sometimes but when I switched branches the new manager was not as good and my accounts got locked once but it was only for a few hours.

All Canadian banks suck. It is what happens when you have no real competition for a essential service.

There is no point arguing with banks otherwise I'd suggest asking them to name what section of the Criminal Code makes online gambling illegal. I'd be very interested.

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05-15-2008 , 03:52 PM

#463

Absolution

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 9,021

I'm having difficulty deciding where the line would be where I would need to report my nightly poker sessions as a professional income. I mean, right now my poker income is substantially less than that of my regular income. I play an hour or 2 a night, but not consistently. Sometimes I take weeks off. I do win on the whole however.

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05-15-2008 , 04:12 PM

#464

Triple B

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolution

If you have a "real job" then there really is no line. Don't report. Canada does not tax hobbies.

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05-15-2008 , 04:20 PM

#465

Henry17

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Just because he has a job that doesn't mean he does not legally owe tax on his poker income. It just means that it is much less likely that CRA will bother him. It is very likely he still should be paying tax on that income. I wouldn't but that is irrelevant. We would need more details but odds are that legally he probably should.

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05-16-2008 , 12:30 AM

#466

Rainbow Warrior

flight risk

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,815

Line 130 - Other income

Use this line to report taxable income that is not reported anywhere else on the return. To find out if an amount is taxable, contact us. Make sure you have read the instructions for lines 101 to 129 first. In the space to the left of line 130, specify the type of income you are reporting. If you have more than one type of income, attach a note to your paper return giving the details.

Contact them.
Let us know how it goes.

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05-18-2008 , 02:47 AM

#467

schreech26

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,310

Are there any tax breaks for Canadians if they're outside the country for x days/year?

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05-18-2008 , 07:39 AM

#468

Henry17

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

If you are not in Canada for 183 days a year you might be able to not be a resident and thus you don't have to pay Canada any tax. There is a complicated test for this. CRA has an interpretation bulletin out on it.

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05-20-2008 , 10:10 AM

#469

Imrahil

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,626

How can they tax us if you are not allowed to declare losses? Like if I lost $10k on poker this year and poker is taxable I should be able to get some money back just like if my business lost money.

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05-20-2008 , 10:22 AM

#470

Henry17

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imrahil

How can they tax us if you are not allowed to declare losses? Like if I lost $10k on poker this year and poker is taxable I should be able to get some money back just like if my business lost money.

No. You don't get to declare loses on all businesses either. There has to be a reasonable expectation of profit. For example, say I liked horses and I started a hobby farm that lost money and had no reasonable expectation of making a profit. I could not declare those loses. Likewise, say I bought a bunch of rental properties but I rented them out at below my fixed expenses. I could not write off those business losses either. Poker is no different. Losing players are considered hobby players since they have no reasonable expectation of profit.

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05-20-2008 , 12:40 PM

#471

shogun_rua

stranger

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry17

Say if you were a winning player for a couple years and payed taxes on those winnings, would you be able to declare losses if you had a bad year?

Quote

05-20-2008 , 06:49 PM

#472

TorontoCFE

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 544

If you have history of earning money then you might get away with deducting losses ( and carrying them back to offset earlier profits) .

Depends on whether you are looked at as either having a hobby or having a profession.

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05-20-2008 , 08:35 PM

#473

Henry17

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

Quote:

Originally Posted by shogun_rua

Say if you were a winning player for a couple years and payed taxes on those winnings, would you be able to declare losses if you had a bad year?

I think you should be able to declare the loss so long as you had a history of paying income tax previously but this situation has never actually happened yet so there is no way to know for sure.

I have no idea how to add a poll but I'd be interested in knowing how many people actually choose to be upstanding citizens and declared their income.

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05-26-2008 , 04:51 PM

#474

DonkEEE

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 28

I just read this post by Marc Karam on the forum at his website and would like to hear some feedback as I was quite surprised to read what he said in the first paragraph:

I have consulted with 3 of the top tax lawyers in the province, and the written legal opinions I have recieved have all said the same thing. I should not be taxed on my winnings. This protects me from ever being charged with tax evasion. But, this doesn't mean I won't be taxed.

After many meetings with my financial advisor and accountant, we decided to go the safe route. I incorporated myself, "MystPoker Canada Ltd.", then I purchased enough tax-credit investments (mostly flow-through shares) to cover all of my career winnings and then some. So even if Revenue Canada decides to tax me, everything has already been written off. Also, even though the money is locked up for 2 years, the investments I chose have good track records and should return a nice profit. Also, I only had to invest around 30% of my winnings to cover everything.

For the people who make a consistent and decent amount of money, I would highly suggest doing something similar. There are many tax shelters in Canada and we should take advantage of them. On top of being safe from the tax man, you are making good investments and you can't go broke on a tilt session! Wink

Nobody has ever been taxed in Canada on poker, and they will surely go after the big guys first. So most people don't have anything to worry about for at least a few years.

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05-26-2008 , 05:10 PM

#475

Henry17

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,710

The fact that he went out and got a bunch of flow-thoughs kind of negates the first paragraph. There would be no need to do that if he actually believed that he was exempt from income tax. He got opinions from lawyers to create a good faith argument that he didn't need to pay tax. His hope would be that if CRA comes after him he can use that to argue that it wasn't tax evasion. If he actually wanted a definitive answer he could have asked CRA for an advance ruling.

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