i keep getting emails from PPA.. pokerstars or fulltilt or whatever may have given my email to them a long time ago.. anyway, is this guy for real? anyone donating to PPA cause?

Yes, Brian is a PPA staff member and is in charge of membership at the PPA. He is legit. Of course, you can bypass the emails and just go directly to the PPA web site to make a donation.

It seems to me like over the years I keep getting more and more emails from PPA saying that the "fight is stronger than ever!" And that they "really need my help" asking for donation after donation, yet here we are 3 years after Black Friday and we're not any closer to having online poker back in the country that created it.

This makes me wonder wtf is actually being done to make changes. It seems to me that every couple of months I hear more and more negative news wrt online poker in the US and every couple of days I get a new email from PPA asking for more money.

Have you guys won any battles? Changed any Senator's or Congressman's minds? Made any progress in Washington? It seems like things are worse now than they've ever been.

This most recent email I received "informed" me that "we" have a "new adversary" in this fight, Sheldon Adelson. Is this supposed to be news? This guy has been fighting online poker for years now!

I'm no PPA apologist, but this is just plain not true.

Really?

It actually is already back in 3 states.

u sir are a "nitwit"

So you would say that what we have right now is a good thing? 3 states have limited access to online poker and the other 47 don't, and that's somehow a good thing? 3 years later?

Yea. 3 years after the Feds were shutting down online poker sites and Congress was passing bans and enforcement measures, now any state has the ability to legislate online gambling, 3 already have and are legislating such, I believe Nevada and Delaware are talking compact, some Congressman have pushed federal bills to explicitly legalize and regulate online gambling and it has been much harder for bans to be passed due to lessoning support for such.

So, yea, that's a pretty large amount of progress for 3 years.

Yes, we do have tough opposition. PPA did not create these opponents, nor did the poker community. This is simply the environment in which we find ourselves.

PPA is doing a strong job, but we poker players didn't outsource our responsibility to advocate for our rights to PPA. PPA helps all of us to do our part to advocate for our game and is, in fact, our organized fight back. I hope you'll consider sending in that payment, writing your lawmakers, participating in the Daily Action Plan, and doing everything else you can to help fight for our right to play.

Why do people believe that the United States is the country that "created online poker" ?

That is complete and utter nonsense.

Pick a site, Planet, Paradise, Party, PokerStars ..... none of these were created by folks in or from the US.

It would be closer to the truth to state that Canada "created online poker", or the Dominican Republic or Israel or India "created online poker".

In fact, the US always harassed online poker operations from its creation.

IRC poker, iirc.

Progress, yes. However, I think it flows from the gaming industry operators or lotteries, not from efforts by the PPA or even poker players

I appreciate the PPA's efforts to fight the cultural war to "legitimize" poker, and the importance of playing defense on Capitol Hill ....but,

in which of these three States would you credit the PPA with any significant role in passing online gaming or online poker legislation ?

(To be accurate, the PPA did turn out for a visit to the DGE or Governor's office in NJ after the bill had passed, and did offer its two cents against veto of the legislation. I cannot recall any role for the PPA in passing legislation in Delaware and none in Nevada.)

Does the PPA act in any real sense to advocate for poker players' interests in the States where online poker has now been licensed ? In Nevada, I don't think the PPA has ever even testified or lobbied on any online poker legislation or regulations on behalf of players' interests.)

PX, you are right ... I stand corrected..... my faded memory must be a sign of Alzheimers because I actually went to B.A.R.G.E. back in the day.

Well it's been a long time and I've tried to block most of this from my memory, but I vaguely remember a deal that was offered up by the US Gov't back in 2010. Something along the lines of...

PokerStars and FTP had to shut down operations for a period of a year or 2. I think it was up to 2 years.

-players could withdraw funds prior to the shutdown but would not be allowed to play during the shutdown

-there would be a 6 month grace period where legislation would be put in place to regulate an open US Online Poker Market

-existing US casinos would have first dibs, as well as sites that obeyed the UIGEA and left the US market when they were told to back in 2006 (like Party)

-the case of Stars and FTP would be reviewed and they would have to wait for up to 2 years and would face fines before being allowed back in the US, if ever

-there would be no online poker at all for at least 1 year, possibly longer

I remember when that deal was put on the table and everybody FREAKED OUT about how horrible of a deal it was! How can we go a whole year without online poker?!? 2 years without POKERSTARS!?! Are they insane?!? No way bad deal!

And now I've got people telling me hat I should be HAPPY? That the situation we are in is that of "significant progress"?! 3/50 states have a legal online poker system 3 YEARS after Black Friday and that's a good thing?

Our current status quo is much worse than the previously feared worst case scenario we were facing with that 2010 deal! How is this progress?

How close are we to having legalized, regulated, open national market in the USA? Because it sounds to me like we're not even remotely close. Like 2016 would be an optimistic date. That's 5 YEARS post-Black Friday, people! If you think that's progress then you need to remove your heads from each other's asses.

Delaware, New Jersey, and Nevada are the only states with legal poker after 3 years. There are less than 13 million people combined in these 3 states! 3 times as many people in California alone! And these small states are supposed to have thriving intra-state poker markets?

What good is this doing us as far as getting a national online poker network set up? How is this helping people that live in the other 47 states that don't have a regulated online poker market? Isn't that the whole point?

Poker in 3 states is not a victory, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. You can buy lottery tickets online in the same number of states that you can play online poker! Mega Millions sells tickets online in Illinois, Georgia, and Minnesota! Do you all think that that is right? That a game of skill like poker is given the same sort of freedoms that the lottery is?

What about online auction sites like Beezid, that are accessible in every state? That's essentially gambling, with no skill edge to be found. Americans can click buttons on online auction sites until their fingers break but can't so the same for poker unless ur in those 3 special states.

I mean, the quoted post talks about the status quo being progress. This is not progress. This is going back to the Stone Age after being hit by a nuclear bomb.

^ Yep. And the PPA backed that federal legislative proposal. And there was a lot of flak from poker players for doing so. And PPA detractors called foul. It's hard to win the battles when your own ranks desert.

The current battle, due to the political landscape in the U.S., is on the state-by-state campaign. We have had some wins there, and there is more to come. The PPA and its members are actively lobbying in many states, and this participation does make a difference (mainly by giving politicians the justification to support positive legislation).

Your participation is needed as well.

CeJeH ...


In your above post I believe you are referring to a bill that was proposed by someone in Congress. It wasn't a deal offered by the government. The "government" is just a group of people. They pretty much never agree among themselves. The "government" doesn't go and offer "deals" regarding legislation to the general public or whoever you are picturing the "deal" being offered to. Some of the members of the government were in favor of the bill you mentioned. Other weren't. It never became law.



And things like this move incredibly slowly. Going from "the Wire Act prohibits all online gambling in the United States (minus certain exceptions)" to "no federal law against online gambling, 3 states already regulating online gambling, others probably considering it, some Congressmen trying to regulate it on the federal level, and significant opposition any time a ban is brought up" actually is a lot of progress in 3 years whether or not it is as much progress as you, I or anyone else would want.


And with respect to having a regulated, open, full national market of online poker in the U.S.A., 2016 sounds very optimistic. It is of course possible that it could never happen. Though it is much more likely (as opposed to a complete national market) that at some point that large groups of states will compact together to form a larger market, even though this may not include all 50.

You can deny the influence the PPA has regarding the issue of internet poker if it suits you. I've questioned them on methods and effectiveness plenty myself, so I can understand that point of view quite well as I have shared it. So for the sake of argument, let's for one moment pretend they don't exist . . . .

Now, who is speaking for the players? I can assure you, politicians aren't reading 2+2 (often I am thankful for that). When Congress holds a hearing, will they call DonkeyQuixote to testify? Or perhaps OP himself, obviously a well known personality in the poker world with a better idea on how to get this tough job done.

When I see a Congressional hearing called regarding internet poker, among the invited witnesses I see John Pappas. They didn't call me, they didn't call you, but John is there. He is eloquent, has his facts straight, and simply put, he represents us well.

Why do you suppose he gets to testify, and we don't? Because of the efforts in building the organization that is the PPA, we as players have a credible voice that cannot be ignored. The PPA is recognized as the leading consumer advocate on this issue, and that doesn't come easy, and it certainly doesn't come cheap.

We need Pappas in those hearings, taking those meetings with elected officials, and speaking with the media at every opportunity, so that we, the consumers, do not get completely forgotten in the discussion. Big business is fighting over the pie, but we still need to be heard, and rest assured, without the PPA we would be in a far worse situation.

Recently, Rich Muny had a meeting set up with his KY Congressman, and he put the word out to any and all KY poker players to join him in this opportunity to address a Congressman directly. You would think at least a dozen players would jump at the chance to speak up for themselves, right? Where were they? Absent, to be sure. Not completely, but once again the players left it in the hands of others. Again, we're fortunate these guys are speaking for us, because too damn many of us won't do anything but bitch on a forum about what isn't getting done.

If you don't like the PPA, can't see their value, think you know better how to get the job done, then stop talking and take some action. Form a political committee in your area. Don't know how? Ask the PPA, they will help you, even though you think they are worthless.

Try and build your own credibility up, see if you can influence your state officials on your own. See how many other players you can get to actually show up at a meeting. Then try and raise the money that it takes, to travel the state, to lobby your legislature, to raise awareness and support.

Then you will find that the $15 Brian asked you to kick in was the least you could do.

Perfect.

Thank you for all your efforts PPA. There could very well be a federal ban of online gaming and/or poker. Just think of what Sheldon Adelson could do when nobody is opposing him in his efforts to ban online gaming...very, very scary.

Less than 3 years ago, we were all scared ****less when the only sites we played on were shut down. It was a very real possibility that online poker would be banned in the U.S. So yes, I think that having legal online poker in 3 states is a huge effort.

It is very easy to sit behind your computer and have opinions on things that are out of your control. I'm guilty of it myself. It is another thing to be proactive in the situation and fully support and push for legalization of online gaming which has been laughable in the face of Congress until the past couple of years.

Again, thank you PPA for all your efforts.

+1

Thanks, but I'd take the Fifth if called to testify.

FWIW, I think John, and even Patrick, are a big improvement over Annie Duke, the former "witness of choice".

I think the PPA unquestionably made valuable contributions to defending against an online gaming prohibition. But, so did Jack Abramoff before them.

More importantly however, the PPA has pushed the cultural agenda about Poker being mainstream entertainment.

However, if someone from the online poker industry had offered me $5 million annually starting in 2006, to lobby on Capitol Hill for a Federal Solution, I'd have given them back $4,000,000 and told them to spend their money elsewhere. ..... sort of like 888 has done by following the State level strategy.

Al Damato got paid for sure, but had near zero chance of delivery of a federal poker bill. (Conversely, the last thing Sheldon's professional mouthpieces actually want is to pass a poker ban ASAP. There is plenty of money and political hay to be made from an online gambling ban effort in 2014 and 2016 election cycles, both federally, and at the State level. )

You want my opinion about who will do more to enable expressly legal online poker in the US between now and 2015, the PPA or 888 ?

Conversely, you think the PPA can muss one hair on Sheldon's head ? Who can fight Sheldon to a draw at least, at the State and federal level ? The lotteries and their built-in constituencies.

Donate $15 to the PPA, Hell, donate 10% of the FTP money you got back ........ but it will not help enable passage of any more online poker bills .... just, maybe buy the PPA a seat at the table post-passage, when regulatory issues need to be reviewed on behalf of "players".

Understand, in the process leading up to passage of a bill, THERE ARE NO PLAYERS, period. Once a bill passes, then newly-blessed licensees will begin to look for "players", those who show up, those who show up somewhere else, and those who do not show up to play, and their voice through someone like the PPA might carry some influence at the margins that matter to players. Somewhat ironically, influencing the margins of poker is easier in a full-blown online gaming scenario than in the oddly anachronistic "poker only" model pushed thru "first" in Nevada.

HI,

I am real. I live in DC. I have a dog, he is a golden doodle. I ride a road bike in the warmer months and ski in the winter. Hope that is enough to prove my legitimacy as a living human.

As per the PPA cause, I guess my response would be, I sure think $15 for a year membership is worth it, if poker and its growth and availability in this country means anything to you. You can join right now at joinppa.org. Or check out theppa.org and read up more about us.

As always, I am easily reachable at bryan@theppa.org.

Thanks,

Bryan Spadaro
Poker Players Alliance

I cannot speak for everyone but most Americans I know are tired of the political jargon and the lobbyist landscape driven by money on both sides.

No matter what sales pitch you give I will never give you a dime...

Seeing this post in the poker legislation forum written by an American poker player is tilting me.

So is the fact that any grown man would have a face pic of Tiger Woods representing him.

I have to put him on ignore.

If your memory of that is so vivid then why are you not supporting the PPA now? That Reid Bill debacle was a perfect example of the poker community shooting itself in the foot. We were a house divided then. So how about if we learn a lesson from that?

The lesson was that there was NO Federal Solution, never was,

That the passage of legislation would HAVE to be at the State level, and

That 2010 "deal" was fish bait:

Ban federally now, then effectively go State-by-State anyway, with no role for Lottery States or tribal interests.

You still like those pot odds ?