Mods: can we get a 'dipce' containment thread and leave this space free for discussion of any developments re: AGA/PS/NJ ?

all of my posts have to so with the subject at hand:
if you did not understand, I will try to clarify, (1) it appears PS
wants to influence twoplustwo to take its side in the
AGA vs PS matter, a potential conflict of interest
it is important this audience be made aware of and post
# 173 and 175 alert you to this potential conflict of interest.
(2) post # 174 alerts you to an important idea in the
AGA vs. PS affair which is that third parties, like poker players, the union for the employees at The Atlantic Club casino in Atlantic City, and the 'Poker Player Alliance'
may have standing to state their points of view before the NJ CCC in the AGA vs. PS matter...
curiously, you would not be complaining if I simply
copy and pasted PS talking points...

yeah pokerstars should be more like caesars. not treating the players with contempt is giving pokerstars an unfair advantage in the marketplace, and they must be stopped.

A classic case of a pot (AGA,caesars) calling a kettle (PS) black, re: Has the AGA (American Gaming Association) Been Honest About Their Motives, or Just Very Selective as to its Prey? http://diamondflushpoker.com/2013/03...rey/#more-3615

Even if true, where is the conflict of interest?

How is this a conflict of interest?



I don't have anything to say regarding third parties possibly being allowed to make an appearance at a licensing hearing.

Just stop

People ITT want Pokerstars back for player reasons. You want to block PS because of AGA reasons. There will never be a conclusion to this argument.

Another fun thing to add: if NJ legislation holds up under challenge, then PS never committed an illegal gambling crime, and crimes like money laundering couldn't be charged to a legitimate business.

With respect to #1: You do not understand much, if anything, about market research or talking to your customers et cetera. Pstars must certainly is not looking at these player meetings as a means to influence action by NJ re the AGA petition. Do you really think that Stars did not do similar market research with entry to other areas, like say Brazil and other Latin America markets ? However, have it your way .....

With respect to #2: I am not giving a NJ legal opinion, but "standing" matters little. I think the petition is a political tactic, not a regulatory matter.

By way of disclosure, I have never been to the Isle of Man .... Their flag creeps me out; looks like an ass-kicking contest among three one-legged Monty Python characters:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QEwAg&dur=2527

A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in another.

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given the secrecy behind the proceedings we do not know, that is why 'possibly' is the key word. PS would like to get politicians and those in the press to make statements in support of its application.

if twoplustwo wants to promote news, views, and gossip, it needs to move in an ethical manner so as to not allow another organization to wine it and dine it so that it will favor its point of view. That PS dinners invitations to twoplustwo are shrouded in secrecy do not help.

To the extent that diverse opinions are allowed on PS questions, one does not feel twoplustwo has been corrupted.

Many have tried to suggest the AGA does not have 'standing' to get involved. My position on standing is to say in essence 'trees have standing' see, Sierra Club v. Morton, 405 U.S. 727 (1972).

it has huge implications as to the rights of unions, poker players, and other interested parties. I do not believe that only greedy corporations that want to suck the blood out of AC in the darkness of night have standing, as many of you are willing to allow.

an example is in order: if third parties, like poker players, the union for the employees at The Atlantic Club casino in Atlantic City, and the 'Poker Player Alliance'
have standing to state their points of view before the NJ CCC in the AGA vs. PS matter...
and the union appears with its employees inside the meeting with arguments and its employees outside the meeting with loud songs and placards (think huge lawn signs demanding their jobs be saved) and the Philadelphia tv cameras, I do not think anyone is going to deny PS a license.

as to #1 you are right, I have never studied Edward Bernays and have no idea how to influence public opinion.

What interests does twoplustwo have other than selling books and advertising on its web site?

http://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room...meeting-13-03/

you need to look to the interests of those offering the free food first.

Who is offer you the free food?

"...The industry leader has met with players and 2+2 users in the past at which PokerStars pays all expenses for the trip, including food and accommodation..."

http://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room...meeting-13-03/

The ONLY way that you're going to influence a corrupt politician/ state official is to give them tons more of what corrupted them to begin with. Read: if corruption is guiding them you need to fuel them even more so, with the catalyst that initially set them off course. If you're a public official you SHOULD be representing the State and not whichever person, people or cult that has corrupted you. Sunshine & Lollipops. Both Sides Now. I firmly believe that most of them are corrupt but I can't seem to let go of my dream that some of them aren't. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

So a big online poker company invites members from the biggest online poker community to get their opinions about their services and to voice their concerns - and pays for the trip and food?

We should be outraged! [/sacrasm]

And although I agree that companies like Caesar's should get to VOICE their opinions as members of the State... when their interests are clearly anti-competitive in nature, they should be largely ignored. And they certainly shouldn't be let into meetings regarding licensing...

"...Player reps sign non-disclosure agreements as a condition of going, so these areas of discussion and feedback cannot be communicated to a wider audience..."


http://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room...meeting-13-03/

we do not know what happened at those meetings due to the non-disclosure agreements...

My point re #1 was that you myopically ascribe a specific motivation to the PStars' soliciting players' input prior to re-entry of a series of markets, including NJ. Your tunnel vision reflects, not a lazer-like focus on the TRUTH, but rather an apparent inability to understand a much more likely motive .... researching a market from which it has been absent for years, one which is now segmented in ways the former singular US market likely was not.

As for "Edward Bernays", the fact that I will be in Guatemala next week does not mean that before your post I had ever heard of Bernays, a propogandist who helped United Fruit overthrow the government of Guatemala. as "communist". I had never heard of Bernays. That I read of him first today and am going to Guatemala next weekend are what is called a "coincidence", two unrelated facts.

Sort of like Stars seeking player market insight for NJ and the AGA having embarked previously on a propaganda/smear campaign.

FYP

If you had to choose to be a "fly on the wall" at some meeting actually related to this thread topic, you might consider what motivated IGT's CEO to immediately announce that the AGA vote to smear PokerStars was NOT unanimous.

Thanks for answering my question.

I do not believe that PStars' is merely soliciting input from a player prior to re-entry into the NJ market. I think it has its own agenda that goes way beyond merely listening to input from a player. There is no free lunch.

Is it your contention that everyone should disclose everything to everyone?

I sign non-disclosure agreements with other companies for my work all the time. Is this a bad thing?

I do not believe it is good or bad, I merely contend folks on this thread have a right to know these meetings are planned, it is up to you to draw your own conclsions

Really? You mean as a biz they aren't looking out for their own interest? I find that very hard to believe.

step 1: indoctrinate players already established in the online poker community

step 2: release them into the world (aka "the waiting game")

step 3: clandestinely fund those same players' rise to positions of power within the New Jersey online poker licensing and regulatory government framework

step 4: follow the plot of The Departed exactly.

step 5: too late to do anything. now they've got you!