Hey All

Looking for opinions to help settle a debate

recently at one of our friendly poker games a debate broke out about whether you can realistically play 1/2 NL for a living. Or can you play well enough to save so you can eventually move up to higher stakes

We are a group of 6 and it seemed split down the middle with 3 saying yes you can do it and the other 3 saying to difficult in low stakes due to the amount of card chasing that goes on at low limit tables

What is your opinion on this.

Of course you can. You just need to be a clear winner, single, barely tilt, no vices, and live like a pauper so the bankroll can grow. Whatever hours you think are normal for a pro, double it.

If you areva small winner to breakeven player, drink and drug, spend money like its going out of style, gamble and other degeneracy you'll either go broke or be stuck at 1/2 forever.

What's your definition of making a living? Yes you could realistically make a living but your not living well by any means and if you have a family there's no way your going to be able to afford that. you have to account for rake as well. If your beating 1/2 to the point u feel it's possible to be a career your already playing in bigger games. No one's living off of 1/2. They will just move up in stakes so they can make real money

Yes the main goal should be to move up stakes of course.

I think a better way to describe the discussion is if someone could realistically play well enough at 1/2 NL with the amount of card chasing to eventually move up to 2/5 NL

A lot of the guys I know and most of us have full time jobs followed the 40 buy in rule for 2/5 so 40K

But if you start with say 12K at 1/2 (40 buy in) that is quite a lot of grinding to get to 40k playing against a lot of card chasers

If you're very good, you can prob make something like $20-25/hr playing full time at 1/2 depending on where you live. That's not a terrible wage, and many don't pay taxes or underpay, so it's a bit better than that. Not many can bring themselves to crank out 2,000 hours a year though.

Also, in order to be that good and continue improving, you need to study away from the table. So that either means less hours on the table, or working more than full time.

40k is probably a workable BR for 2/5, though not quite ideal.

The rest depends on things like the cost of living and stuff like that. If you live where it's cheap and have a live-in partner who is cool with you doing this and pays half the bills (or more), then you can certainly make an OK living and maybe save up enough to play 2/5 in a few years.

It's a lot easier said than done. After 2 years of modest living, your partner, who has a real job wants to finally take a vacation to Hawaii. You've built your BR up to 20k playing cards, while she fills out TPS reports all day. "Nope, that's so in 2025 I can finally move up."

Or if single, you can live in a studio, drive a beater, rarely or never date or go out and save up maybe $10k/yr to that goal.

Appreciate the response. We did not really go that deep into it . Just really were trying to figure how disciplined someone really needs to be to play well enough at a chase game like 1/2 to continue building a BR and move up

If you think card chasing is preventing you from profiting at a game, then no, you probably cannot make a living at it because you don’t understand the game well enough. By card chasing, I presume you mean that opponents will make bad calls with poor draws and/or unfavorable pot odds and implied odds. That, by definition, means that the card chasers are making -EV plays. If you avoid making -EV decisions yourself, you benefit from the chasers’ -EV plays and your win rate increases. You would make LESS money, not more without the card chasers.

Now, what the chaser do is increase your variance. You may go through more frequent and larger downswings as a result, and you may get frustrated and FEEL like you cannot beat the game. However, the bad players who chase are ultimately your source of profit. Playing a larger stake game with fewer bad players will NOT increase your win rate. (You may make more profit though - a 5BB/100 win rate at 1/2 is worth less than a 3BB/100 win rate at 2/5, for example)

My brother has been living off of 1/2 for over a decade, and he is the most frugal human I know.

That is amazing I would be curious how much he brings in a year and how many hours a week he has to put in to get there

It really is just if you love the game enough. If you love it than it'll mean extra energy to focus and everything will work out.

Depends on what game and where. In Texas you can do it and I know people who have done it. However, they are usually building up their roll and will also play 1/3, 2/5. But these games can play 1k, 2k+ deep with super action players. Also, straddle is frequently on.

I played 1/2 the other day with a $10 Texas style button straddle. UTG opens $30, cutoff calls $30. Hero shoves Ad5d in the SB. UTG tank calls with $300, CO calls with $140. UTG called with QTo (lol wtf) and lost to me, I lost to CO who had AJo, but still profited. This set up my table image as the action player.

A few hands later I stack the guy on my right when I 3bet him with AA and he has QQ for $1,000. Later on I stack cutoff who stacked off pre with AQo vs my JJ for $500.

What I am getting at is not all 1/2 games play the same. If you are trying to make a living playing 1/2, hopefully it is in a place like Texas.

You can gradually increase a bankroll but you cannot live off it. Even as you go up in stakes, your bankroll cannot support the constant monthly cost of living expenses.

Well I am not sure I 100% agree with that. Me personally I could not as I am not that strong a player. But I know over 2 dozen people from my local casino that have been making a living off 2/5 NL for over 10 years.

Depends on cost of living. If the game is really juicy and cost of living is really low then it can be done. I have seen it done. Keep in mind my experience has been that in these games the straddle is very frequently on, you have to table hop to the best table, and there isn't really a mid stakes game offered at the same cardhouse.

I know two local pros that started at 1/2 and one guy from the UK who rents an apartment for a few months at a time and grinds a lot of 1/2 when there isn't a better midstakes game being offered.

But if there is a decent midstakes game being offered, you want to play in it for sure over the 1/2 game. If you are playing professionally at these types of 1/2 games then you probably need to be rolled for a standard 2/5 game that plays in places like Vegas and LA.

A top 1-2 player can make $15 to $20 an hour but the grind is very stressful. You get burned out and want to take breaks so it is very hard to get in 40 hours a week. So 20k to 30k a year is what a top player would end up making. A much better option would be to become a poker dealer. It is an easy job and from what I can tell they easily make $40k to 80k a year and if you like being around poker, it is actually a fun job and has very little stress compared to trying to play for a living.

Texas poker sounds so overrated any time someone talks about it. Wow someone got it in pre with QQ and another idiot got it in with AQ, the horror…

As for OPs question, yes it is possible.

Why do you keep talking about card chasers like they are a bad thing?

Card chasers are the biggest reason to play deepstacked $1/$3. They are the ticket to growing your bankroll.

You might want to ask an actual dealer if they think this is true. I'm not a dealer, but it seems like a fairly stressful job to me, both mentally and physically. If you're a good pro with a large bankroll and low expenses, playing poker for a living shouldn't really be that stressful.

Define a living? $$$
Also in order to move up to 2/5 you would need to save all your bankroll, thus no income from poker.

I know a handful of regs that call themselves pros at 1/2 - 2/5 level and they all live in their parents basements, wear sweatpants 24/7, and live off casino food and comps. GL getting a girlfriend or having any life outside of being a miserable sh** reg in a casino 60hrs a week.

Sounds like the life. Who needs a GF when you have female dealers, waitresses, and masseuses to make really uncomfortable? And porn.

The other three would not make it due to a fundamental misunderstanding of how people make money at poker.

But I agree with all other posters. I have met 1/2 pros, and I never aspired to be one.

I think 1/2 is better suited to part timers who can and have the will to play in the stupidest games possible.

You need to get out more then. I know plenty of people who play 2/5 for a living and make a good living in an expensive state like New Jersey. Granted most of them also play the stock market, and other side hustles but they make it work

10bb/h is an achievable goal for consistent regs in softer games. So, $20/h. Some people live off that for sure. But yeah, probably in a basement apartment with 3 roommates, if it's a major city.