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Would you fold top pair here? Would you fold top pair here?
View Poll Results: Hero does what?
Fold flop
0 0%
Fold turn
12 66.67%
Fold river
3 16.67%
Call down.
3 16.67%

09-30-2009 , 08:38 PM
It is the 8th hand into a HU match. You have seen 1 flop with villain where u called oop with T9o flop comes K72s he cbet and you c/f. Villain is from america. He has raised 75% otb and so have you.

Now you raise A2o to 3bb OTB and villain calls. Stacks are 100bb

Flop comes A77r; Villain checks, Hero cbets 5bb into 6bb, Villain raises to 16bb, Hero...

turn comes blank, Villain bets 23bb, Hero...

river comes blank, Villain bets 58bb(AI), Hero...
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 08:55 PM
I find the kickers on the turn and river somewhat useful when deciding whether to call or not. I find that move extremely strong for trips....but an ace here is possible as long as some worse hands.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 09:01 PM
hero...very much considers checking flop
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 09:03 PM
id prob shart in my panties and fold the turn
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stevenson
hero...very much considers checking flop
this. so WA/WB here. why not give him a chance to catch up in order to extract value or not get yourself stacked by better?
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:07 PM
i was unaware people ever folded top pair on a non-4flush board
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:10 PM
yeah def check flop.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:16 PM
If we dont cbet Ax villain may start to c/r a lot, also we get value from PP's and Kx.

There are also likely v. few combos of 7x in villains likely range {67s,78s,97s,K7s,A7s,A7o,77} (13 combos of 7x) where as many PP's {22-TT}(48 combos) etc.

Also, this is a great board to OOP float, which villain could v. likely be aware of.

Last edited by Huggy; 09-30-2009 at 10:22 PM.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:17 PM
check flop all the time
it isn't A x y, it is A x x. so much different type of flop
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:18 PM
Especially early in the match w/out any dynamic I check flop like 100%...maybe even turn
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:26 PM
yap my first thinking when i saw the post was to check flop
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
yeah def check flop.
Comments like this are so dumb. Obviously you're going to have to bet this flop a good amount of the time here (most of the time) for balance assuming you are cbetting dry ace high boards most of the time. Personally, this early in the match I'm going to be barreling this board with most of my range, and think it's important to bet this flop to establish that you're going to be value betting thinly in the future.

OP, I think a good standard line here is b/c the flop and fold to the turn barrel, but it really comes down to a leveling match between you and your opponent. There are definitely people who I would call down all three streets here, but there are also people against whom a flop fold is the only real play. So far you've had 8 hands to figure it out, which is usually enough to make at least a somewhat educated guess.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:34 PM
def this ^^^
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ooooooooooh
There are definitely people who I would call down all three streets here, but there are also people against whom a flop fold is the only real play.
I would be cbetting the flop vs villain 1 and checking the flop vs villain 2. I wouldnt mix up my play for any other reason other than my opponents tendencies in spots like these...
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 10:58 PM
btw, im not posting this because I don't know what to do, I was just curious as to how exploitable most MSNL'ers are.

If your folding Ax by the river more often then not, your being really exploitable.

Im DEFFO gonna start c/r 2 barreling these boards vs regs. Sooooooooooo ++++EV.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
09-30-2009 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ooooooooooh
Comments like this are so dumb. Obviously you're going to have to bet this flop a good amount of the time here (most of the time) for balance assuming you are cbetting dry ace high boards most of the time. Personally, this early in the match I'm going to be barreling this board with most of my range, and think it's important to bet this flop to establish that you're going to be value betting thinly in the future.

OP, I think a good standard line here is b/c the flop and fold to the turn barrel, but it really comes down to a leveling match between you and your opponent. There are definitely people who I would call down all three streets here, but there are also people against whom a flop fold is the only real play. So far you've had 8 hands to figure it out, which is usually enough to make at least a somewhat educated guess.
you really want to base a big decision off of 8 hands?
this early into the match i think checking is fine when you dont really have much of a feel for your opponent at all
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
10-01-2009 , 12:12 AM
Look, I fully understand the pros and cons of betting or checking this flop with ax, so thanks ooo for telling me what I already knew and quoting me even though everyone said the same thing. I just feel that this early checking back the flop is fine while your still getting a feel for your oppenent.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
10-01-2009 , 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggy
btw, im not posting this because I don't know what to do, I was just curious as to how exploitable most MSNL'ers are.

If your folding Ax by the river more often then not, your being really exploitable.

Im DEFFO gonna start c/r 2 barreling these boards vs regs. Sooooooooooo ++++EV.
Except for the fact that a lot of advice here isn't followed realistically.

And you have no solid reads against villain (ie whether he's gonna fold Ax)

And that if your villain and hero calls flop/turn hes often calling river.

And that 7x is in the range of the person youre trying to bluff, esp given a lot of player swould check Ax on flop.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
10-01-2009 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggy
btw, im not posting this because I don't know what to do, I was just curious as to how exploitable most MSNL'ers are.

If your folding Ax by the river more often then not, your being really exploitable.

Im DEFFO gonna start c/r 2 barreling these boards vs regs. Sooooooooooo ++++EV.
people aren't betting Ax where x = small card, everyone checked flop with marginal Aces so you're not going to like the results when you c/r 2 barrell vs flop bets
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
10-01-2009 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavitz
Except for the fact that a lot of advice here isn't followed realistically.

And you have no solid reads against villain (ie whether he's gonna fold Ax)

And that if your villain and hero calls flop/turn hes often calling river.

And that 7x is in the range of the person youre trying to bluff, esp given a lot of player swould check Ax on flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeestein
people aren't betting Ax where x = small card, everyone checked flop with marginal Aces so you're not going to like the results when you c/r 2 barrell vs flop bets
A c/r on the flop is +Ev with air allllll daaaaayyy long.
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
10-01-2009 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggy
btw, im not posting this because I don't know what to do
IT'S A TRAP!!
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
10-01-2009 , 12:59 AM
check this back, check back K high, bet/call 88 to fold turn. and check back air to delay cbet sometimes
Would you fold top pair here? Quote
10-01-2009 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stevenson
you really want to base a big decision off of 8 hands?
this early into the match i think checking is fine when you dont really have much of a feel for your opponent at all
Obviously 8 hands isn't that much, but it's what you have to use. My point was that you can make SOME inference from how the hands have gone (how fast he's raised, whether he's using constant bet sizing, if he three bet, etc) and use that to help with your decision.

If you think he's a decent player, for example, there's a good chance that he'd go with the "i c/r him on Axx and he called, he must have something and I'm not gonna try to make him fold an ace this early, so I'm not gonna barrel the turn" logic.

My main reason for betting the flop is to set the precident that I will be taking aggressive lines and v betting thinly
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