I'm playing on winning poker network. In the first 4 month I won 90k running little above ev.
Since august 25th I'm 60k$ below ev
The stakes I play is 1-2 through 15-30
High games done run as much, so average game should be 2-4
My biggest ev difference in 8 year mid stake career was about 40 buy ins

I'm starting to doubt the cards are random.

I forget how to post pics , if someone will tell me how to post my graph, i will gladly do so.

I'm just wondering if this is possible, is someone had a similar swings in ev.

Post graph search forum on how to do this.

~250 below over just above a million hands, gl.

is this strictly nl?
what's your sn (if don't mind sharing)?

20k PLO , 40k holdem
Screen name is bigrich7

of course it's possible... it's possible to lose every single pot with eq <100% indefinitely

you say you doubt the cards are random, but what other explanation can you propose?

Yea, you're def a good player, gl

That small sites need the fish to survive, and than someone comes in absolutely kills the game, and maybe they want to even out the playing field?

Is something like that possible?

I think you might wanna stop playing on that site if you have these kind of doubts about the sites integrity. I feel that it will just add to your frustration and make you tilt more easily. Not saying that you are right or wrong.

Was down ~145 buy ins in EV last year on lock over 300k hands or so. Had similar thoughts about the games integrity. I think its unlikely but I certainly wouldnt but it past some of these smaller US sites.

i have similar thoughts about bodog, feel like big sports betting fish run sooooo dam good it's unreal...

i had 100 BI ev downswing in like 300k hands of NLHE a few yrs ago.

figured this was you, and there was some PLO sprinkled in there. The fact that a smart and experienced player like yourself even created this thread/is worried about the site is probably a sign to take a break or quit WPN for the time being. GL either way.

Clicked on msnl and was brought to bbv?

i suppose it's possible. track the EV bb/100 of every player, upload to database, if EV bb/100 exceeds some threshold over, say, 100k hands that player gets flagged and becomes subject to a different RNG. this would be somewhat difficult to track by the community and the site does have incentive to do it.

so we need to compare the likelihood of that happening relative to the likelihood of someone running 150bi under ev.

the likelihood of someone somewhere running 150bi under ev is quite high. as you see a few 100bi+ ppl are coming out of the woodwork in this thread, and i've seen several graphs like that in the past. there will be a little bias towards good players here because a good player will have the bankroll and base winrate to sustain such a downswing. a breakeven player running 150bi under ev will often have to find another line of work. but anyway, an individual player running this much under EV isn't a cause for concern. it's to be expected.

i have no clue how to assess the likelihood of the site implementing something like that other than to just guess. i always try to keep in mind that any poker site has a big monetary incentive to stay on the up and up since running a poker site has low overhead and high profits. then again something like that would be fairly hard to track, especially if it were a fairly subtle tweak in the RNG. so it doesn't seem completely outlandish, but it still seems somewhat unlikely. but that's just me spitballing.

anyway if you wanted to go about this in a more rigorous way you should post this to the WPN forums, or ask other winning regs about it at the tables. at the very least i can weigh in and say i have a pretty high winrate at WPN and haven't experienced anything like what you're describing.

This.

hi bigrich7, I know you quite well and I don't understand how can you say someting about the intergrity of the site, ur pretty decent player imo but you prob play only on one site and thats why you feel that way. having 100bi downswings can heppen alot, esp when you play so many hour straight that i doubt youre in your agame 100% of the time.

I don't play as much as you do on the site, but I can say that everything looks good in my point of view.

dagfishn1.

http://s66.photobucket.com/user/eric...tml?sort=3&o=1

all holdem

http://s66.photobucket.com/user/eric...tml?sort=3&o=0

All games, include plo, since the bad stretch


http://s66.photobucket.com/user/ericontilt/media/MyCurrencyWoninUSDoverHandsPlayed3_zpse78778d0.png .html?filters[user]=139906354&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

hands before the stretch

What does his A game have to do with anything?
He's talking 150bi bellow ev, not actual downswing.
It's irrelevant how well he is play, although he is winning as you can see on the graph.

I capped out at around 200-225 buy ins under EV over a period of about 1million hands right after black friday happened too, talk about worst time ever to run bad. **** happens.

A good rule of thumb is no matter how bad you have run, you can run worse.

Human brain is not designed to understand variance, it just simply isn't wired that way. Learning to understand it is something you can strive for in life but will likely never fully succeed.

Turn aiev off. My worst downswing (over 40bi) I was running pretty much in-line with aiev and I've had huge heaters where I've run below aiev. There are SO many ways to run good/bad as I'm sure you know and I've found looking at aiev can just make things more f****d up in your head.

Looking at my all in ev, is probably the only thing that kept me from quitting online poker.
Other wise I would think I m washed up and quit.

Question to OP and other winning regulars:

If you're in the US you're playing on ACR, Bovada, Merge most likely. Respected sites but not exactly Stars or FT. Do you question whether any of these sites can or would program it so you would still be a winning player but maybe skew it in the direction of rec players so we don't take heaps of money off sites from said rec players which overall hurts traffic?

Fyi: I'm a winning reg as well, so this isn't a u.s. sites r rigged debate. Rather looking @ it from the sites perspective. OP crushes for a few months withdrawing 90k, why would the site who knows it may not be operating in the US for so long let it continue to happen?

a site like bodog that has no screen names, no trackers, huge sports bettors who play 10-20 nl and plo, for sure they dont want these whales blowing their bankrolls playing poker...just saying