Hero (2100): Aggressive image at the table
V1 (600): Noob player, he is not a regular player, he is just starting to learn. Plays passive pre flop, plays passive his draws. Doesnt know much about position or ABC
V2 (1600): Best player at the table. GTO wizard. Plays really aggressive his made hands and always makes the correct play
v3 (1000): Passive player. Likes to call down random draws to hit it
V4 (1200): TAG fish. He almost always loses but doesnt play crazy. He is capable of making moves on some spots and usually likes to call me down light thinking im over aggressive

OTH
V1 raises 35 utg, v2 calls, random player calls, v3 calls, I have QhTh and call on the button, blinds fold. Should have squeezed? Maybe but decided not this time

Flop (175)
QcJd4s

V1 bets out 35, v2 calls, v3 calls, v4 raises to 85. I have a very strong feeling that v4 is reading v1 bet as weak and might be making a move with Jx, maybe Qx or some straight draw. He might have a set of 4 or QJ but I have a feeling he is not super strong. Im also blocking QJ in case he has it. If he has KQ or AQ he might have 3bet me pre since he doesnt flat those hands, he makes squeeze plays from time to time


Hero raises to 200 to isolate V1 and push out some draws.

Thoughts on the raise?

This raise seems suicidal to me. V1 has raised UTG and then bet into 4 players on a flop--incredibly strong!--and then, despite that show of overwhelming strength, V4 has decided to raise that bet anyway? After 2 other guys called it too?

Like, I get that it's live poker and strange things happen, but V4 should only ever be doing this with a set or top two. He'd have to be absolutely insane to think a bluff would work here...so we should assume he's not bluffing. And if he's not bluffing, your QT hand is toast.

I snap fold here.

Read your own description of V1. When a passive player pre-flop likes his hand enough to raise pre-flop and we know he is passive with draws but bets the flop into multiple people you are way behind him.

I really hate spots like this. Our top pair is basically a bluff catcher right now, but there is still another player left to act. Raising here doesn't make sense to me unless you are turning your hand into a bluff. I think we have to fold this flop and make note if V shows their hand.

I have a really hard time believing that V2 is a GTO wizard if he's flatting an UTG raise with so many players behind him.

That being said, this is a fold-pre most of the time. The opener is only 120bbs deep, and they just opened for 7x. He's gotten action from two non-droolers. This is going to be a big pot, and you aren't going to flop well enough, imo, to want to play this every time. I would probably raise 5-10%, call 5-10%, and fold the rest.

As played your raise is too small. V1 is getting 3 to 1. V2 is getting even better odds, especially if the fish UTG does something stupid like flat. Most draws are getting a good price against you because the gut shots are mostly going to have overcards.

Snap fold.

As already mentioned, a GTO wizard should not have a calling range from EP ...

Anyway, otth.

I also call pre most of the time: we have position, good odds, and a hand that plays decently multi-way.

Your re-raise on the flop doesn't make sense: nobody is ever calling with worse and, given the action, you are unlikely to have enough fold equity.

V4's raise is rather smallish (although if he is really a TAG fish, that still means business most of the time) and we have TP with a BDSD, plus position, so you might convince me to flat and re-evaluate turn, hoping that noone else comes over the top.

That being said, folding flop still looks like the safest option to me, by far.

is this 2/5 or 5/10? That makes a big diff on the pre raise size.



I would definitely call on 5/10 and probably fold pre on 2/5. Flop,I don't know what all those players have, but I know what I have, and TP weak kicker isn't god enough vs those Vs and all that action.

Why does everyone say that gto wizard should not have a flatting range.

Its pretty obvious that V1 is very strong here preflop, i think its very unprofitable to only have a 3bet/fold range in this particular spot. We should definitely be using our post flop skill to our advantage here.

As played for hero, raising seems like fps, calling sucks, there is literally 0 good turns for you, just fold it.

There's way too many other players behind him to get cute, so flatting caps him.

I know turn raise is not optimal against normal opponents, but remember that V1 doesnt know how to play poker, so that situation changes a lot against a decent lineup of players that should be exploiting him. Thats the main reason I did that raise in the turn, If anyone other than V1 call me im check/folding most turns. Also my raise folds out almost any hand that isnt a set or specifically JT. No one is calling me with AQ, KQ there.

5-10

Im calling you with AQ and KQ. You are as close to a maniac as any reg in the forum and can see you having K10 or 109 as frequently as sets in this situation. Both have blockers to QJ limiting those combos.

What about your play in person suggests differently? I see you got called down for stacks with A high in another thread. So it must be apparent to most at the table you like to get OOL frequently?

This was 6 handed and you got extremely lucky the V who raised was at the very bottom of his raising range. And V1 at the bottom of his new to poker donk calling range. And a perfect storm of incorrectly folding to your aggression and calling huge bets without correct drawing odds.

So is your raise a bluff?

He's not sure, he's just clicking buttons.

My raise tries to push out random hands that are just calling the Bad player to draw for cheap (he bet 35 and people can call him down Even with 98 to draw). Also i really think that the only value hand V4 can have that can call me is QJ or 44 specifically. All the rest fold