Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold?

07-22-2020 , 10:51 PM
Villain is relatively unknown. Honestly I frequently want to fold preflop in these spots. Turn gives me a gut shot but I feel like i'm always getting shown AA or KK here, and like never AhKh. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Yatahay Network - $4 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP+1): $400.00
CO: $425.25
BTN: $168.00
SB: $528.78
BB: $406.00
UTG: $507.60
UTG+1: $405.20
MP: $921.50

SB posts SB $2.00, BB posts BB $4.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $6.00) Hero has J J

UTG raises to $9.00, UTG+1 raises to $27.00, fold, Hero calls $27.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to $88.00, UTG+1 calls $61.00, Hero calls $61.00

Flop: ($270.00, 3 players) 7 8 6
UTG bets $89.00, fold, Hero calls $89.00

Turn: ($448.00, 2 players) T
UTG bets $330.60 and is all-in, Hero?
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? Quote
07-24-2020 , 12:34 PM
Do you have any reads on utg? Flop sizing seems more reggish than rec. If utg were rec, I think for sure fold, doubtful they're balanced here, and 4! range utg over a cold caller is super strong for most recs. I'm not familiar with Yatahay, this isn't a home game site right, it's a public game?

(edit- missed your "relatively unknown" comment. I think in that case it's fair to assume that they're a reg or at least a competent rec)

It's definitely a tough spot against a reg, since your hand is pretty face up, and if you fold this what are you calling? What else is in your range here? Tt, maybe 99 at some frequency, but those probably fold to the 4! at a pretty good frequency. Some qq perhaps. Good regs will for sure be balanced here, bluffs aren't that hard to find, akhh, a5hh etc. You're the only one with the sets and straights, so they can't bluff with abandon, but they have more combos of aa kk and qq than you do of tt or 99, which is more relevant at this stack depth imo. Blockers aren't super relevant, but ajs could be in the 4! bluff range. Given everything, if utg is a reg I think you have to shrug call without hearts here, knowing that you'll get shown aces at some frequency.

Pre it's tough for sure, none of your options seem great. This hand illustrates that no matter what, we're going to be in a gross spot. Even on t72 you don't love it. I think call the 3! fold to the 4! is best, you're really only satisfied with a set here and have to fold tons on most runouts.
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? Quote
07-24-2020 , 02:26 PM
Fold pre probably 4b vs some looser stats
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? Quote
07-24-2020 , 09:39 PM
I think you played it fine vs a unknown. On the turn you have to fold. Hes pot committed and basically saying if you have 99 or TT you gotta show him. Hoping he has AK here is wishful thinking. I think his play is bad shoving the turn but as played not much you can do. You just have the fold the turn. If he checks it a good card to bluff not sure why he shoved.
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? Quote
08-04-2020 , 05:16 AM
Tough... I just fold stairght away. I don't like to call in that spot. COld4 or fold. Cold 4 ev - with this position I guess. SO I just fold.
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? Quote
08-10-2020 , 12:24 PM
8 handed facing a UTG open and a UTG+1 3B with 4 players to act behind, JJ is a muck pre, at least when 100BB deep.

For reference, even when looking at my 6-max sims, when LJ opens 2.5BB and HJ 3B to 7.5BB, if we have JJ in the CO, we should be folding roughly 80% of the time. When we're dealing with even earlier positions, and more players behind, JJ rapidly shifts from being break-even as a continue to outright losing money.

Additionally, as some other players have said, our strategy to continue pre-flop should be 4B or fold, as by cold-calling 3bets we allow the original raiser to squeeze with a surprisingly wide range of hands profitably given our capped range.

As played, on the flop we should generally be jamming our mid-strength over-pairs here. This is because considering the SPR, we should be getting the money in against over-pairs which cooler us anyway; however jamming denies equity (or gets calls) from AK type hands which are also very much in V's range, and we unblock.

Of course, jamming into a range which is quite over-pair heavy might seem suicidal here, but that is a consequence of our poor pre-flop play. Unless we also take this line with AA and KK, JJ is a mandatory jam here to prevent us getting owned by V having 100% fold equity on the flop, since I'm guessing our range here is just going to be TT-JJ and maybe some AK/QQ.
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? Quote
08-14-2020 , 01:32 PM
I don't have a 3 bet overcalling range. In these position looks like a pretty comfortable fold pre.

As played think we have to fold flop looking at a range of akhh, qq's plus from villain. Our hand just doesn't improve.
JJ 4 bet pot-find a fold? Quote

      
m