$ is $ regardless, and if being a dick gets you more $ from poker business, its still $ made from poker.

The argument isn't ridiculous. If you want to extrapolate the "lovey dovey talk about hunting in montana argument" then everytime you show Draco a bluff you are making him learn from his mistakes, demeaning him, making im feel dumb, and he'll stop giving you action.

It just clearly isn't always the case.

agree with stealth idiot,

but telling someone the mathmatical formulas and why calliing the 3rd raise with people behind you with marginall hands is bad, or explaining thought processes at the table, is bad.

again, super wrong- when i show a bluff its to tilt him and get more action, not so he learns. do u actually think i show it to be a dick?

there are certain people you can feel out whether needling them will make them play better or worse. same for showing a bluff. for the most part tho if someone is playing like an idiot and u don't know anything about them why would u say anything to them. they are already playing like an idiot and saying something to them might make them play tighter tho prob not much better. now once they start saying stuff to u in chat and u realize u can get them to come after u by saying something it's a little different as long as u don't take it too far and tell them flat out how awful they are and how bad they're playing. there is a fine line and a lot of people cross it all the time.

ya, for sure. however, when a moron sucks out on you in a big pot, and you are steaming, sounds like going off on him can easily be viewed as a +EV for meta!

I of course know that you bluff him to tilt him and get more action, not so he learns. I'm saying that the same thing with berating players that suck when they make mistakes can be viewed IN THE EXACT SAME WAY.

(Also, I am aware of some fish that view it as you are demeaning them if you show them a bluff. I'm sure other people have had similar stories.)

Face it, most of the whales are incapable of learning, huge degens, will not leave, and will give more action afterwords. Its ridiculous to think that you should be friendly with all the fish. Sure, some fish, under certain conditions its best. However, if you are always nice at the tables, you can easily miss out on a +EV beratement.

Hellmuth would be the epitome of milking the +EV out of berating fish. He is so good at it that he isn't really good at poker, but has managed to make millions because of his image, thats how key image is.

ego is a terrible thing

some of the people i've sold off action to are huge nits about game selections, not letting me play you HU and whatnot. it sucks, but the risk of alienating a player (who keeps playing despite the "broken table" phenomenon by he way) is just one that people who sell off action have to take

wow i thought you were joking at first stealth, but you're not? Are you just presenting an opposite viewpoint for the sake of discussion or do you actually believe that what you're saying is not completely ******ed. you are right when you say that it's not a ****ing debate, it's people requesting/telling maggots to stop acting like maggots because it's ****ing their **** up, not debating with them on whether or not they should.

another thing. it's not just berating fish for sucking and stuff that is bad. stop talking strategy at the table. i've seen a ridiculous amount of 2+2ers and others do this whenever I play live poker and it's a really bad idea, not to mention really ****ing annoying. Cool that you understand the idea of ranges and ****, but no one cares except for the fact that they just found out a bunch of info about your game, or they are curious about the stuff and want to find out more. even if you play a pot with your buddy or some other internet player you respect or something, don't ****ing have a discussion about how you played it and why.

also, stealthmunk: you seem really obsessed with making awful arguments. you seem to take pride in being able to take contrarian positions as though thinking outside the box is more of a proof of intelligence than actually being right. just saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_advocate

stealth is somewhat right, there are definitely some people that react in the way he is describing but the vast majority would rather stay if its a friendly nice atmosphere. When the whale is super cocky, stealth is right, but when he's just a nice passive guy they are way way more likely to leave if u berate them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron

so you're admitting your arguments are pointless and just meant to be contrarian. do you just make them to annoy people?

we've all got our crosses to bear

lol @ this thread


Such a simple issue.


Never trash talk the whales

Trash talk the tilters

Never give either of them advice about how to play a hand better.

My arguments aren't pointless and they are almost always articulate, logical, and convincing.

One of the few pleasures in my miserable life is annoying stupid "internet celebrities" over a poker forum with my arguments.

I'm slightly happier now having annoyed the great "foxwoodsfiend."

thanks for the link!

try having sex instead

god ike, you're so brainwashed

I was talking to stinger about this yesterday, what's worse is people were insta sitting out when steve sat out! when he doesn't leave the table he will obv brb, is it really that bad to play 20 hands when u might be a small dog? also adz berates steve even while steve is playing, eg he calls a massive rr cold w kqs and takes out durrrrs ak, adz decides its smart to tell him how bad a play it was, grrrrrr

its true that a ****ty atmosphere at the table push whales and high rollers away. i got a couple of good friends who play super high in the pits and most of them stay away from the poker room despite the fact that they love playing poker. they dont like the vibe at the table and people berating them when theyre out to have fun. it seriously takes like one bad experience for these whales to never show up again who would rather have fun losing thousands at a bj table where they can laugh and talk it up with other patrons.
this type of behavior seriously takes big amounts of money out of the poker economy.

i'm just impressed that adz knows it's a bad play

i laughed

i thought this thread was about how we shouldn't berate the fish

Ya, and a lot of the people complaining about it have poker training sites which takes big amounts of money out of the poker economy (just not so much at the stakes they play so they don't care.)

In an act of retributive justice, next time Steve_Haris signs on I'm going to spam him with links of cardrunners, deucescracked, leggo, gamblers anonymous, and call him a lucky idiot whale reminding him that everyone is there for you you moran!

Now, if I can just beat the waiting list and con someone into sending me a min buyin on pokerstars.