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Old 05-06-2018, 04:46 PM   #1
lt.marechal
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Did I lose to a bad beat?

Hi everyone. I posted a hand a few days ago and got some good advice. I have recently started playing poker on my quarterly trips to vegas, not very good yet but looking to get some tutoring as I am really enjoying the game.

This hand was played at 10K nl Hero is BB and Villain is on BTN. I have been playing at the table for about three hours and villain seems to be a good LAG. I have a fairly loose table image after making a number of bluffs that got through and a few hero calls, some right and some wrong. We are really deep after I won a few flips and some draws got there. Hero has around 55k and villain has around 45k

My question is this, with my table image can I get away from this hand? the 4th spade seems like a really good card for villain to bluff on. any advice would be appreciated.

Preflop:
Heros hand AhTd
Folds round to Villain on BTN who opens for 400
SB folds
HERO on BB raises to 1000
Villian 4bets 2200
Hero calls 1200

Flop: Th3s7s (pot 4450)
Hero donks for 4000
Villain calls 4000

Turn Th3s7s Ks (Pot 12,450)
Hero bets 5000
Villain calls 5000

River Th3s7s Ks JS (Pot 22,450)
Hero checks
Villian bets roughly 34,000 and is all in
Hero tanks for about 5min then calls.

Villain show AdAs for an ace high flush.

I just feel like the board ran out in such a way that he had a lot of bluffs in his range. is this call too optimistic? is it plus EV in the long run?

any advice would be greatly appreciated
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:21 PM   #2
BigStackPoker
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Preflop: I like the 3bet but Ax 10x should be folding to a 4bet preflop so when it gets flicked back and you have to play Ax 10x out of position against a LAG opponent who is going to apply pressure your in a world of hurt on A high or 10 high flops.

Flop: Not to needle you but the Donk bet is bad, we want to exercise pot control in this spot because even though you flop top pair your still behind villians preflop 4bet range

Turn: Tricky spot considering board texture and 3rd spade coming in on turn considering this is an MTT and chips are so valuable compared to cash games where we can get more creative and rebuy if we stack off I think checking turn is the most optimal play and if Villian leads we can fold out, if Villian checks back we peel a river and re eval post river

River: check as you did... Then FOLD... this is not even close to be honest...
You were 4 bet preflop and this board texture upon final runout absolutely crushed the villians preflop 4bet range. What bluffs can we even give Villian and his line is so strong 4bet Pre, call, call, shove river after your Donk bets on flop/turn. This is not a bad beat at all this is just a particular hand in which you made several mistakes but don't worry it happens to the best of us just continue to study and work on your game/leaks.

My advice: fold to 4bet preflop for reasons stated above but if you do choose to call and see a flop you should be check calling flop and check/folding to turn bets from
Villian given this runout
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:24 AM   #3
poloplaya1414
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Sorry to say man, but I think you played this hand about as poorly as you could've.

Preflop, I think flatting is much better than 3betting when you're this deep. If we were 100 BBs deep, I think you could 3bet AT profitably, but this deep, he'll be able to put you in a ton of tricky spots postflop so it's probably better to see a cheap flop and play for pot control when you hit something. If you are going to 3bet, your sizing is way too small. Villain can profitably flat your 3bet with basically any 2 cards IP and deep. When you're this deep, your 3bets from OOP should be 4-5x the original raise. Calling the 4bet OOP is also just terrible.

On the flop, I think donking is bad. Better to give villain a chance to bluff his air and call him down, and getting raised here absolutely sucks. A x/raise might be a better play, but I think villain's range is too strong in a 4bet pot.

On turn, after the bet, you're basically just turning your hand into a bluff. You're never getting called by a worse hand at this point. You're just trying to get villain to fold his JJ/QQ type hands. Which is fine, but then taking a x/call line on the river is just terrible. What could villain possibly be betting with on the river here that you beat? You think villain floated two streets with air? After he calls the turn bet, he definitely has either a spade or Kx at the least.
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:18 PM   #4
pokerpro888
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Ya you're bluff catching against his 4bet range and with 4 spades on the board by the river with no spade in your hand...easy fold.

Agree with the above two posters also.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:43 PM   #5
lnternet
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lt.marechal View Post
I just feel like the board ran out in such a way that he had a lot of bluffs in his range.
Like which hands in particular did you think he could be bluffing with?
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:28 PM   #6
JobRunsBetter
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStackPoker View Post

considering this is an MTT

Are we sure about that? It says 10k NL in OP
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:16 PM   #7
pokerpro888
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JobRunsBetter View Post
Are we sure about that? It says 10k NL in OP
Yup, I saw that too, $10K per buy in cash game.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:36 AM   #8
ka1z0ku
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

How do you even consider this hand a bad beat when you were crushed since the beginning?
Is it really $10k NL?
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:01 AM   #9
DannyAIC
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka1z0ku View Post
How do you even consider this hand a bad beat when you were crushed since the beginning?
Is it really $10k NL?
This is kind of what I'm wondering, but didn't wanna say it.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:09 PM   #10
donkology101
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

Wow man....Reading every single play after the 3b made me cringe. You didnít add any kind of 3b 4b dynamic u had w villain so I honestly think this hand should have been a fold to a 4b. Then the donk bet is tragic and the sizing is even worse. What exactly do u think he has here? What is your reason for the donk bet?
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Old 05-24-2018, 06:32 AM   #11
JW31
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Re: Did I lose to a bad beat?

I agree with everyone else... after your 3-Bet pre-flop every single play thereafter is awful. And I am not saying that to put you down at all because we’re all trying to get better. But it’s far better to get the truth than it is for anyone to blow smoke.

I mean... if you wanna say that getting dealt AT vs AA in a short handed BB vs BTN dynamic is running bad then that’s fine but he made it very easy for you to get away from. And honestly a lot of his bluffs that you are speaking of still beat your hand. Hell any 4-Bet could contain a K, J or any spade and his “bluff” beats your hand. What 4-Bet hands are you beating? I doubt he’s gonna 4-Bet 99. Did you think he was capable of 4-Betting light? And if so the only had your beating is AQ or some kind of A3/A4/A5 suited hand... AK has you dead, AJ has you dead... and that’s generally not a 4-Bet hand. What bluffs specifically are you beating? Because you are not beating any 4-Bet value hands unless you think he could have AQ without a spade played this way which seems like a stretch.

By the way was this a cash game? You tell us this was a $90K pot after your call. Tournament chips or real cash?

Last edited by JW31; 05-24-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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